@Flyentologist said:

What part of "thats the best thing to do and we cant think of something better" is "not in good faith"

The part where that's pretty demonstrably not true based on how they've successfully corrected incorrect episode ordering for other series. I've seen them merge seasons. I've seen them adjust episode ordering. This database is not write-only.

I was under the impression or at least in my memory that I read that there are particular things about the merging of particular series that are more difficult to do than others. Maybe Im misremembering or misunderstood... but anyway- regardless I dont even think this whole line of questioning about the rules being not applied consistently is genuine. Clearly the issue isnt that the rules arent applied evenly (at least thats not the main issue). The main issue may seem to be that you guys dont agree with the rules.

And what does that mean? If you dont agree with the rules, that means you want it changed. Can't you just admit that? And if you want it changed then why are you being so coy with making a suggestion? Not just coy, even complaining about it? Its just interesting how rude the users are calling the mods all sorts of names saying theyre stupid, etc. but when the users are asked to give a suggestion.... All of a sudden they can't think of one? And find the idea of being asked to think of one somehow a protestable thing?

But since you cant admit that you want the rules changed...it comes across more like to me that you guys are not interested in helping the database be fixed, you guys just want your particular series fixed the way you want it. You pretend you want rules applied evenly, and you pretend that you want the rules changed but actually neither is really true. The truth seems to be you just want this particular series to be changed and dont want to consider how that should actually be done in a way that considers the database as a whole. Otherwise surely you wouldnt protest so much about being asked a simple question like "do you have a suggestion?".

@Flyentologist said:

@superboy97 said:

There is nothing to change here.

You can make them appear as you want for you by using episode groups.

Neither Plex nor Jellyfin presently supports episode groups unfortunately.

Forget the argument were currently having (the bickering and the disagreements), is it not possible for users to try and get Plex or Jellyfin to fix this? It sounds to me like the issue is with them not with this site? Genuine question.

There is nothing to change here.

Strongly disagree.

@Flyentologist said:

@superboy97 said:

There is nothing to change here.

You can make them appear as you want for you by using episode groups.

Neither Plex nor Jellyfin presently supports episode groups unfortunately.

You need to ask their team to add support for the episode groups. They are an integral part of TMDB since multiple years. Or use another software more TMDB friendly, like Kodi for example.

@superboy97 said:

@Flyentologist said:

@superboy97 said:

There is nothing to change here.

You can make them appear as you want for you by using episode groups.

Neither Plex nor Jellyfin presently supports episode groups unfortunately.

You need to ask their team to add support for the episode groups. They are an integral part of TMDB since multiple years.

Sure I will definitely do that, and I'm not arguing episode groups are not integral because they're one of the better features of this site, I just wanted to point out that your suggestion is not actually a solution to the presented issue that the present episode ordering results in faulty metadata in Plex, Jellyfin, and EMBY, none of which to my knowledge support episode groups.

As for softpillow I don't know why you're quadruple quoting me and still writhing in your demand for me to provide you a suggestion that you haven't heard yet but you can read the last paragraph of my previous comment if you need to.

@Flyentologist said:

I just wanted to point out that your suggestion is not actually a solution to the presented issue that the present episode ordering results in faulty metadata in Plex, Jellyfin, and EMBY, none of which to my knowledge support episode groups.

They appear faulty because you are using an incomplete software that doesn't support the episode groups.

@Flyentologist said:

Sure I will definitely do that, and I'm not arguing episode groups are not integral because they're one of the better features of this site, I just wanted to point out that your suggestion is not actually a solution to the presented issue that the present episode ordering results in faulty metadata in Plex and to my knowledge Jellyfin and EMBY.

It is a solution though cause it seems your issue is with Plex/Jellyfin. In other words its not really tmdb's issue if Plex doesnt do something you want.

As for softpillow I don't know why you're quadruple quoting me and still writhing in your demand for me to provide you a suggestion that you haven't heard yet but you can read the last paragraph of my previous comment if you need to.

I quadruple quoted you because you edit your comments afterwards so Im replying to the new information youve added.

I will go ahead and read what you added to that paragraph.

EDIT: No Im not wanting a "suggestion I haven't heard yet". The mods just need suggestions, period. They need help with coming up with a new rule that actually has specific concrete details. There hasnt been a suggestion (at least not one pointed out since a mod said there arent any suggestions/i.e. when I joined the convo). Your last paragraph is just "there needs to be a new solution" and you yourself admitting that you cant think of one- "case-by-case basis", "intuitive reasoning" and "require nuance" are not that useful, practical or specific. Repeating "we have a problem with this" is just not that helpful. You need to actively engage in helping find a solution. Not just complaining that there is a problem.

@superboy97 said:

@Flyentologist said:

I just wanted to point out that your suggestion is not actually a solution to the presented issue that the present episode ordering results in faulty metadata in Plex, Jellyfin, and EMBY, none of which to my knowledge support episode groups.

They appear faulty because you are using an incomplete software that doesn't support the episode groups.

This isn't how causation works. Other company's software does not become incomplete because you implemented a feature that those platforms don't yet support lol. They are faulty because the episode ordering available on TMDB to metadata agents differ from all other sources. You are asking us to bend metadata to match your unique ordering while seemingly blaming the users again. I know some of my and many others' previous comments have come off as entitled, largely due to bewilderment at the unsatisfying and dismissive answers given by the mod team, but even a "I'll bring this to the other mods" would probably make everyone shut up.

Feature suggestions have been made to those platforms and hopefully they do eventually support episode groups because that will likely resolve, essentially, everything with this particular bugbear. It's a great feature of TMDB. Until then, be prepared for what will probably be an endless flow of reports about this due to the nature of it being unique to this website.

@Flyentologist said:

They are faulty because the episode ordering available on TMDB to metadata agents differ from all other sources. You are asking us to bend metadata to match your unique ordering while seemingly blaming the users again.

We don't have a unique ordering, but multiple orderings provided by the way of the episode groups. They are a major feature of our site.

@superboy97 said:

@Flyentologist said:

They are faulty because the episode ordering available on TMDB to metadata agents differ from all other sources. You are asking us to bend metadata to match your unique ordering while seemingly blaming the users again.

We don't have a unique ordering, but multiple orderings provided by the way of the episode groups. They are a major feature of our site.

You know that I acknowledged episode groups exist. You know that I acknowledged they're a great feature of this site. You should then also know that I said episode groups do not matter to the most commonly used platforms that call on your metadata API, and that the metadata that is available to them is uniquely wrong and thus does not resolve the problem your end users are experiencing. You know I've said all this because you just replied to it. This will continue to be an issue for the overwhelming majority of TMDB users, but at this point I concede and understand that things are the way they are and that's that. I will look into whatever software does support episode groups and experiment with and transition to other metadata agents in the meantime.

@Flyentologist said:

You should then also know that I said episode groups do not matter to the APIs that call on your metadata agent, and that the metadata that is available to them is uniquely wrong and thus does not resolve the problem your end users are experiencing.

The episode groups metadata are available via the API.

This is not our fault if some software don't use them.

I have even indicated to you a software that use them.

@raze464 said:

Well, the first installment is just called "Solo Leveling" / "俺だけレベルアップな件" and the second installment is called "Solo Leveling Season 2 -Arise from the Shadow-" / "俺だけレベルアップな件 Season 2 -Arise from the Shadow-." How is that not a sequel series / second part with "season 2" in the title?

It's not a sequel series/second part because the official website, https://sololeveling-anime.net/story/ has the episodes split to Season 1, Season 2,

It's not a cour name because the title for episodes 13-25 is literally "俺だけレベルアップな件 Season 2 -Arise from the Shadow-." It's a sequel series / second part that has "season 2" in the title.

With the exception of episode numbers how is this any different than Dr. Stone season/cour names? See, https://www.themoviedb.org/tv/86031-dr-stone/seasons.

I know what split cour is (which is different than being released in multiple parts, BTW) and Solo Leveling definitely isn't split cour and I never said it was. But you know what Mushoku Tensei did that Solo Leveling didn't? It restarted its episode numbers from 1 with the release of its sequel series: "Mushoku Tensei: Jobless Reincarnation Season 2" / "無職転生 II 〜異世界行ったら本気だす〜" begins with episode #0 (which is added as a special because it's numbered as 0 instead of 1), followed by episode #1.

Answer me this, Sunrise calls Mobile Suit Gundam: The Witch from Mercury's second cour "Season2" but continues the numbering of the previous cour. Does that use of "Season2" then make it an actual second season instead of the second cour of the split cour broadcast is was announced to be?

Neither of the sources you link are "official" so they should only be used as refence, right?

When I look at the official source, https://g-witch.net/story/, the website has no separation between episodes 1-12 and 13-24 so that would appear to be actual split cours (I haven't watched that show so am only going off the official site)

BTW, are you also reaching out to aniDB, MAL, AniList, and ANN about not respecting the multiple facts that designers choose with regards Solo Leveling? Solo Leveling and Solo Leveling Season 2 -Arise from the Shadow- are listed on their databases as two separate anime instead of seasons of the same anime.

This isn't aniDB, MAL, AniList, or ANN they are separate sites that make their own rules, I don't contribute to their sites, they way the order things doesn't affect my data.

If you refute users here when they say things like "literally the whole rest of the the internet says S01E13 doesn't exist" and you reply "this is TMDB, we have are own rules", you can't now imply that their rules matter for this site.

Isn't this suppose to be a community supported website, well listen to the community and fix it.

How would you change the rules, then? Please keep in mind that TV anime entries are not exempt from the regular TV guidelines, which say the first episode of a season is always episode 1 and this absolutely cannot be changed.

I have suggested before (maybe not for this show but absolutely for multiple other shows and have got no response from mods in return) two different options for the first episode of the second season: First, S02E01 (13)You Aren't E-Rank, Are You. The (13) could be added as another data point to season/episode (more work on the back end) or it could be included as a part of the episode name. This shows that it is the start of a new season AND that the designers have continuous numbering.

Second, S02E13 You Aren't E-Rank, Are You. This is the most accurate way to follow the designers intent but you would need to modify the guidelines so seasons can start with numbers other than 1.

I lean towards the first option, while it's a compromise in accuracy (the official website doesn't list a S02E01) it does represent all the intended data, season separations and episode numbering. Both options don't loose any data, primarily season artwork, but the first seems to me to be easier to implement.

As far as rules that cannot be changed please see your own previous comment,

@raze464 said:

Giving you guys an update: moving forward, new episodes of Urusei Yatsura should be added as combined segments (i.e. the April 19, 2024 episode should be a single entry titled "Asuka Returns / A Stormy Date (1)" on TMDB) and previous segments will be merged. Travis, the admin, ultimately decided during an internal discussion about X-Men '97 that these types of segments shouldn't be split since that's not how they were originally released.

The episode guidelines have their own separate "Anime" section because anime is done differently than regular (western) tv shows so it does need special consideration and we just want you to reconsider that fact that the designers season separations are JUST as important as their episode numbering.

I and probably a lot of others didn't know about the api's support of episode groups, since we are not developers. After looking around, I found this for Jellyfin: https://features.jellyfin.org/posts/1733/advanced-tmdb-episode-grouping-options. Needs more votes.

@superboy97 said:

@Flyentologist said:

You should then also know that I said episode groups do not matter to the APIs that call on your metadata agent, and that the metadata that is available to them is uniquely wrong and thus does not resolve the problem your end users are experiencing.

The episode groups metadata are available via the API.

This is not our fault if some software don't use them.

I have even indicated to you a software that use them.

I understand and respect your decision to structure Solo Leveling as a single season based on internal guidelines, and I appreciate the use of Episode Groups as a way to reflect the intended season split.

However, at the moment, the Episode Group contains no images at all, which makes it difficult to navigate and visually incomplete. For many users, this defeats the purpose of relying on Episode Groups as an alternative to proper season-based structuring.

Even if the main season layout remains unchanged, I sincerely hope that Episode Groups can be treated as fully supported and richly detailed views — not just placeholders.

It’s hard to consider Episode Groups a practical solution when they lack even basic visual assets like thumbnails, which users rely on for browsing and recognition.

Are there any plans to enable editing or contributions to Episode Groups, so the community can help complete missing data? If that becomes possible and Episode Groups are properly filled out, I’d personally be satisfied using them as an alternative to the main structure.

Thanks again for your time and consideration!

@hardy_sheng said:

However, at the moment, the Episode Group contains no images at all, which makes it difficult to navigate and visually incomplete. For many users, this defeats the purpose of relying on Episode Groups as an alternative to proper season-based structuring.

Even if the main season layout remains unchanged, I sincerely hope that Episode Groups can be treated as fully supported and richly detailed views — not just placeholders.

It’s hard to consider Episode Groups a practical solution when they lack even basic visual assets like thumbnails, which users rely on for browsing and recognition.

I've relayed the demand in our internal forum.