WE are juding her in relation to other characters on the show we compare her to ned stark robb stark jon snow even tommon or even robert baratheon or renly baratheon, these are not considered to be particularly evil the way dany is, she is turning into the mad queen burning people alive just like her father did

@Xsploit said:

WE are juding her in relation to other characters on the show we compare her to ned stark robb stark jon snow even tommon or even robert baratheon or renly baratheon, these are not considered to be particularly evil the way dany is, she is turning into the mad queen burning people alive just like her father did

Not that I don't see where you're going, let's remember that Ned, Robb, and (to a lesser extent) Jon all executed people either by decapitation or hanging and those guys, along with tommon/robert/renly are all dead all through some combination of being weak, being too compassionate (Ned), underestimating your enemy (robert/renly) or breaking promises (Robb).

This is just my perspective, but Dany has to show the Lannisters she means business and that she's not weak, that if she says she's going to do something then she's going to do it. She could have burned ALL of those Lannister soldiers, but she gave them the choice to join her cause or die, because if they don't join she might as well kill them since I don't think she has a jail to put them in.

Although Tyrion makes a good point that maybe she should have only killed the elder Tarly, but in my mind that just means then she'd have to watch out for his son making moves behind your back. Honestly I think Dany has been far more considerate than others in her position. Granted she had to be talked out of sacking Kings Landing but she was able to be talked out of it (mostly because I think she was just angry about being outplayed by Cersei and not because she really wanted to do it).

I think it was poor writing to kill them both tbh, it was just a way to get fatty the head of the house and actually have some power, i assume there is a point of making sam head of the tarly house along the line.

Dany could have sent the younger tarly to the wall, i mean fuck she could have sent them all to the wall, she knows jon needs men, now she has a bunch of recruits that arent loyal to her and only joined out of fear, troops like that will run at the first sign of danger, not useful men to have in your army, not like the dothraki or the unsullied

@cswood said:

Although Tyrion makes a good point that maybe she should have only killed the elder Tarly, but in my mind that just means then she'd have to watch out for his son making moves behind your back. Honestly I think Dany has been far more considerate than others in her position. Granted she had to be talked out of sacking Kings Landing but she was able to be talked out of it (mostly because I think she was just angry about being outplayed by Cersei and not because she really wanted to do it).

I think Dany might have talked Lord Tarly around. He mentioned that he didn't have any good options. His argument was the Cersei was at least living in Westeros all her life; Dany could have pointed out that, because of Robert, that was not an option for her. But she didn't even try to persuade him.

@Xsploit said:

And the thing with dany is that she is a terrible ruler, seriously everything she has tried to run has turned to shit and rebellion, if it wasnt for her dragons she would be nothing. i would be surprised to see her on the iron throne at the end of the show, i still think it will be littlefinger :p

No way does Little Finger get the iron throne. His days are numbered. His little ploy to turn Arya and Sansa against each will be found out. I hope Nymeria chews his face off

yeah it probably isnt going to be little finger, he seems to have lost control over sansa, he still is lord of the vale though doest he own the riverlands and the fingers too ?

@Oldnewbie said:

We're judging Dany (and all these GoT characters) buy our current standards. That means you folks have never really "gotten" the show or the world it has created. Why then do you watch? What is the "pull" for you if you do not understand the world these characters inhabit which directly influences their decisions? Just waiting for another Dany nude scene??

Yes I am suggesting you are ignorant of history, which even though this is part fantasy it is part medieval; and veering in some instances towards stupidity.

If you had any grasp of history, you'd noticed that mentalities in GoT are all modern and very different from those of the 15th century it loosely takes inspiration from. These are mostly modern people in medieval looking costumes.

Right. In real history there was a powerful monolithic church until Luther came along. In Westeros (until the High Septon) There are multiple religions with a vaguely tolerant "Septrion" church on top, and nearly all the main characters ignore religion altogether. Lots of people in midieval timss were religious hypocrites; in Westeros they don't need to be because it doesn't matter. .

@CharlesTheBold said:

Right. In real history there was a powerful monolithic church until Luther came along. In Westeros (until the High Septon) There are multiple religions with a vaguely tolerant "Septrion" church on top, and nearly all the main characters ignore religion altogether. Lots of people in midieval timss were religious hypocrites; in Westeros they don't need to be because it doesn't matter. .

Most people in the 15th century were not hypocrites but sincere believers. This is why religious differences were the cause of wars far worse than those petty lords or kings fought for the sake of territorial properties. The show's portrayal of religion as a mere social convention for the higher class is a modern left-wing fantasy. The "free folk" is another such modern aberration. People living in such conditions of scarcity in harsh climates value food, shelter and tight social ties before they even think of having a word for freedom. The Dornish "tolerance" of free love and gender-egalitarian society is yet another modern fantasy.

@mechajutaro said:

The Dornish "tolerance" of free love and gender-egalitarian society is yet another modern fantasy.

None of the other realms seem remotely intolerant of the proverbial bump'n'grind, so much as being reduced to hysterics over the results of this, on those occasions where rug rats are created anyway. Books may be different, nonetheless Dorn, as depicted in the show, has never been depicted as any more or less gender egalitarian than any of the other realms either. The existence of the Sand Snakes isn't testament to a particularly progressive culture, when one considers that every other realm possesses warrior women also, and we've never seen enough of the Dornish men to know whether or not they views on such gals is any more charitable than those held by men in the neighboring kingdoms.

True, the Dornish law making women eligible to rule just as men in strict primogeniture was not exposed in the show, only in the History & Lore extras of the DVDs. All the show gave us in this regard was the surprising acceptance of Ellaria as a ruler after she murdered everyone else.

@Leo of Red Keep said:

@Oldnewbie said:

We're judging Dany (and all these GoT characters) buy our current standards. That means you folks have never really "gotten" the show or the world it has created. Why then do you watch? What is the "pull" for you if you do not understand the world these characters inhabit which directly influences their decisions? Just waiting for another Dany nude scene??

Yes I am suggesting you are ignorant of history, which even though this is part fantasy it is part medieval; and veering in some instances towards stupidity.

If you had any grasp of history, you'd noticed that mentalities in GoT are all modern and very different from those of the 15th century it loosely takes inspiration from. These are mostly modern people in medieval looking costumes.

I see. So the current leaders of Germany, France, Spain, England, and the USA routinely burn people alive, torture them mercilessly for really no reason at all except not bending the knee? I was highlighting the typical disciplinary actions of rulers during that time. They ALL were purveyors of brutal punishment. History is complex and indeed some cultures, some rulers may not have been as brutal as others. Then there was good old Vlad Tepes, or Vald the Impaler, aka Dracula.

You should know that, scholar.

@Xsploit said:

yeah it probably isnt going to be little finger, he seems to have lost control over sansa, he still is lord of the vale though doest he own the riverlands and the fingers too ?

Littlefinger only owns the Fingers (which means he mostly owns a pile of rocks). He's not Lord of the Vale. That is Robyn Arryn. But Littlefinger does have a lot of influence over Robyn and can manipulate him easily.

The riverlands belonged to the Tully family but the Lannisters gave them to the Freys to hold after the Red Wedding.
I'm not sure who holds them now.

@Mirabel said:

@Xsploit said:

yeah it probably isnt going to be little finger, he seems to have lost control over sansa, he still is lord of the vale though doest he own the riverlands and the fingers too ?

Littlefinger only owns the Fingers (which means he mostly owns a pile of rocks). He's not Lord of the Vale. That is Robyn Arryn. But Littlefinger does have a lot of influence over Robyn and can manipulate him easily.

The riverlands belonged to the Tully family but the Lannisters gave them to the Freys to hold after the Red Wedding.
I'm not sure who holds them now.

I have seen the future and know what will happen tonight and a great deal of the finale. I won't spoil it for you but will say Littlefinger is not as secure as he thinks he is.

@Heisenberg12 said:

@rarebreed said:

I stopped rooting for Dany the moment she became arrogant towards her enemies. I don't like arrogance. Dany is the only ruler who brags about her successes.

So it's okay to poison, assassinate, and murder people as long as they're not arrogant? lol.

Yeah I don't get that either. I'll avoid the "if she were a man people wouldn't mind so much" argument but just looking at things from her perspective she can't afford to be too weak or too cruel, she has to reach the balance of being tough but fair. To try and win the respect of her followers, but also strike fear if they think about challenging or betraying her.

Compared to all the other leaders we've seen on the show she is easily in the top 3 better ones with perhaps Jon beating her out (even though he was killed for being too compassionate) and maybe tying with Robb (even though he got killed for breaking promises). Dany has a code of honor and she has risked her life to stick to that code, she has risked her life to save people she owed nothing to.

I just don't get why people hate her all of a sudden. She killed two enemy soldiers who refused to pledge loyalty to her. That is not that big of a deal especially since she had the decency to give them a choice. THEY chose. Dickon didn't have to die with his father but he chose to. That was on him.

I realized last night that Jon wouldn't make a good leader. He set off to capture a Wight without a plan and nearly got everyone in his party killed, and he held back from leaving which cost Dany a dragon. He would have lost the Battle of the Bastards if not for Sansa and Littlefinger. Jon is good at fighting and means well, but that's pretty much it. He's not a good strategist.

Tyrion wouldn't make a good king either, he's good at day to day operations, and a great battle strategist. His problem is he's very bad at predicting what his opponents will do. He showed this not only in Casterly Rock but also when dealing with the Overseers at the Great Pyramid.

Cersei is just bat shit crazy.

So who's left to root for? Also Dany is a very effective leader when she makes and trusts her own decisions. Unfortunately, she often is quick to take bad advise from people without thinking it through, which is something she needs to work on.