Item: Robinson Crusoe
Language: de-DE
Type of Problem: Incorrect_content
Extra Details: The series is from 1964 and is also a 4 episode series which was only a year later split into the 13 episodes by BBC
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Reply by Banana
on November 14, 2024 at 4:22 PM
Please add a reliable source to support your claim. The current listing is the earliest French release recorded by the Inathèque .
Reply by Shei
on November 14, 2024 at 5:04 PM
Looks like it was first released in Germany in 1964 according to Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Adventures_of_Robinson_Crusoe_(TV_series)
Newspapers confirm that too.
https://www.deutsche-digitale-bibliothek.de/newspaper/item/JEYM6HQ5SB7O5BRCUMPVTDWI4WNC5O6A?issuepage=6
https://www.deutsche-digitale-bibliothek.de/newspaper/item/Z6NKIH6YMSE3WL5LNGFCRUEZKJSAZBPX?issuepage=6
https://www.deutsche-digitale-bibliothek.de/newspaper/item/3JPPDJIFT4CTY37VBE4UWS2TDGCJIGYR?issuepage=6
https://www.deutsche-digitale-bibliothek.de/newspaper/item/LUG2ATQLF3K5RM2UVEVVNDF3D74MKZDK?issuepage=6
This recording states at 1:26:13 that it was a co-production of Deropa-Film und Fernseh GmbH and Franco London Film S.A. Wikipedia says it was co-produced by ZDF, but the recording only says it was on behalf of ZDF.
Reply by LucasF99
on November 14, 2024 at 5:05 PM
You can read about it on the wikipedia page. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Adventures_of_Robinson_Crusoe_(TV_series) "The show was first aired in Germany in October 1964 under the title Robinson Crusoe as four 90-minute episodes by co-producers ZDF television, and syndicated in the USA the same year. It was first aired in the UK in 1965 as a 13-part serial." Tomorrow I can look if I find archived documentation about the german release. It aired on "ZDF", that's known. But I'm not sure about the details yet
Reply by LucasF99
on November 14, 2024 at 5:06 PM
Thank you for looking into this
Reply by Banana
on November 14, 2024 at 5:16 PM
According to this, both the English and German versions were dubbed. What about the French one? It could be why the French version was considered to be the original version (I honestly don't remember editing this one).
Reply by Shei
on November 14, 2024 at 5:34 PM
Judging by the actors, I would assume it was shot in French
Though the Wiki also mentions it was dubbed into French for some reason, so hard to say.
Reply by superboy97
on November 15, 2024 at 2:06 AM
The German Wikipedia page indicate "Originalsprache Französisch".
The English Wikipedia page indicate "Country of origin France", but it also indicate "The serial has been dubbed into German, English, French and Italian. " This last sentence is not sourced. So, this is possible that they simply list all languages available for the series, without taking in account which one is the original and which ones are really dubbed versions.
Reply by superboy97
on November 15, 2024 at 2:13 AM
Apart from this 13 episodes listing tagged as "long version" by the Inatheque, they also list another version in 26 episodes tagged as "short version". Unfortunately, this listing is unusable as all the episodes have the same date and time "01/01/1965 00:00:00:00". Was this version really broadcasted ? If yes, before or after the other one ?
Reply by LucasF99
on November 15, 2024 at 2:28 AM
Found another passage on Wikipedia: "Franco London Film made three different cuts of the show available (four-part, six-part and thirteen-part versions) to accommodate the broadcasting requirements of countries buying the serial." So there's different versions that were all made in production. However, the first aired version was the four part German version in 1964. Afaik this is also the only version available on discs, which was the the initial trigger for me to report the issue (tried matching the four episodes from the DVDs with tmdb, which obviously didn't work). As for the original language, I'm pretty sure it was recorded in french as all the actors and most of the on-set production crew were french speaking
Reply by superboy97
on November 15, 2024 at 2:48 AM
If it was shot in French and France is part of the production team, we should normally consider that the original version is the French one and base our listing on it.
This is also what is done by Wikipedia which indicate on top of the page : "Country of origin France".
Reply by LucasF99
on November 15, 2024 at 3:07 AM
Tough decision. I agree with your point that, while being a german/french co-production, the french did most of the production and the movies original language is most likely french. However, listing 1965 as the release year would be wrong in my opinion. The German Wikipedia page also lists 1964 as the release date (and France as the country of origin). Deciding which cut should be considered the original one is also hard. I found some interesting information on the german cut: "Certain scenes were shot with different actors for the German cut of Robinson Crusoe, and some extra scenes were filmed. For example; Wooseley's niece, the blind man and Jenny do not appear in the French/English version. Other scenes were edited from the German version, for example the looks of distaste upon Hoffmann's face in the first episode as he rolls a shipwrecked body in the sea, and tries to eat an insect.". Also, there are six additional cast members listed for the German version. But I don't believe this would be enough to list the different cuts as different entries on tmdb?
Reply by superboy97
on November 15, 2024 at 3:11 AM
If we consider it as French. We need to list the episodes of the first French broadcast. The listed year for the show is automatically derived from the broadcast date of the first episode which took place in 1965. We can't set it manually.
Reply by LucasF99
on November 15, 2024 at 3:15 AM
I'd consider it a german/french co-production and list the episodes of the first German broadcast. Ultimately up to the mods
Reply by superboy97
on November 15, 2024 at 3:33 AM
"Countries of production" and "Country of origin" are 2 different things. The episodes list should be based on the country of origin.