by knix:

Considering how much they seemed to know about Khan, why didn't they realize who he was much earlier?

They should have at least recognised him. We may not remember all of Napoleon's feats, but we do know what he looks.

It reminds me of Kirk, he should have known Spock's father was Ambassador Sarak in the episode Journey to Babel. Being a captain surely he read at least his officers' files.

Since WW III etc didn't happen in the 1990s as suggested in this episode - and remember, everything good about Star Trek comes AFTER and perhaps BECAUSE OF WW III - what do you think might be the reason for it not really happening? Maybe something unusual happened to the Soviet Union that resulted in its collapse that we experienced, rather than continuing and eventually starting WW III?

I'm not sure what you are saying here so bare with me.

Are you implying there was no WW3 in the 1990 because something must have happened to Russia that resulted in its collapse ...so in your eyes, only Russia could have started WW3 ?

We are on the brink of WW3 now and as far as I can see Russia is not the culprit.

@sunshine62 said:

by knix:

Considering how much they seemed to know about Khan, why didn't they realize who he was much earlier?

They should have at least recognised him. We may not remember all of Napoleon's feats, but we do know what he looks.

It reminds me of Kirk, he should have known Spock's father was Ambassador Sarak in the episode Journey to Babel. Being a captain surely he read at least his officers' files.

We also know who is referred to by hearing the name "Napoleon." No photo required. Knowing what they did about Khan already, and knowing about the Eugenics Wars etc, then figuring the people they'd found were probably genetically enhanced, and hearing the name Khan, it should have been immediate. (Which also seemed a bit odd about Khan giving even that part of his real name.)

Since WW III etc didn't happen in the 1990s as suggested in this episode - and remember, everything good about Star Trek comes AFTER and perhaps BECAUSE OF WW III - what do you think might be the reason for it not really happening? Maybe something unusual happened to the Soviet Union that resulted in its collapse that we experienced, rather than continuing and eventually starting WW III?

I'm not sure what you are saying here so bare with me.

Are you implying there was no WW3 in the 1990 because something must have happened to Russia that resulted in its collapse ...so in your eyes, only Russia could have started WW3 ?

We are on the brink of WW3 now and as far as I can see Russia is not the culprit.

Russia was just one possibility. Although I did say Soviet Union not just Russia, and the Soviet Union did collapse in our timeline. But it was definitely the one they probably would have had first in mind when Star Trek TOS was being written and produced. These days China would be more likely.

There have been some claims in the Trek "Universe" that the genetically-enhanced people like Khan were created to help win a WW3 that had already started. (Although there are also thoughts that the main part of WW3 might only last a few minutes, so there wouldn't be time for that.) But Spock mentioned Khan-like people taking power in several countries at once, and maybe that's what caused/started WW3. WW1 and WW2 started with rather small countries, so the Khan people could have started it by taking power in small countries, although they were created for other reasons. In that case, perhaps just the non-existence (so far) of the "Super Soldiers" might be what kept WW3 from starting in the TOS timeline.

But why do you think we're now "on the brink?"

by knix:

We also know who is referred to by hearing the name "Napoleon." No photo required. Knowing what they did about Khan already, and knowing about the Eugenics Wars etc, then figuring the people they'd found were probably genetically enhanced, and hearing the name Khan, it should have been immediate. (Which also seemed a bit odd about Khan giving even that part of his real name.)

I agree it didn't make sense....Maybe Kirk was distracted during history lessons.😂

I'm not surprised Khan said his name; he was full of himself.

Although I did say Soviet Union not just Russia, and the Soviet Union did collapse in our timeline

Yes it collapsed but not due to a war.

There have been some claims in the Trek "Universe" that the genetically-enhanced people like Khan were created to help win a WW3 that had already started. (Although there are also thoughts that the main part of WW3 might only last a few minutes, so there wouldn't be time for that.) But Spock mentioned Khan-like people taking power in several countries at once, and maybe that's what caused/started WW3. WW1 and WW2 started with rather small countries, so the Khan people could have started it by taking power in small countries, although they were created for other reasons. In that case, perhaps just the non-existence (so far) of the "Super Soldiers" might be what kept WW3 from starting in the TOS timeline

As far as I know they were two distinct wars.

Some leaders created supermen to have an advantage over other countries and their armies.

At one point, these enhanced beings took over.

And once they were in control, these titans went against each other, hence the Eugenics Wars.

Khan was victorious. Khan was then defeated by us humans and fled Earth on the ship Botany Bay.

The Eugenics wars can be considered a catalyst for social unrest and instability that eventually led to WW3.

But why do you think we're now "on the brink?"

I don't think I need to explain this.

@sunshine62 said:

by knix:

Although I did say Soviet Union not just Russia, and the Soviet Union did collapse in our timeline

Yes it collapsed but not due to a war.

Exactly my point. At that time, when TOS was being made, many people - perhaps even most - expected the USSR to last forever. Perhaps even win, eventually. Or at least that nuclear war was "inevitable." When that didn't happen, because of their collapse, that upset the TOS timeline.

@sunshine62 said:

by knix:

But why do you think we're now "on the brink?"

I don't think I need to explain this.

I hope you're not claiming it's because of Trump. Israel/Hamas, Russia/Ukraine, etc, all happened during Biden. Nothing like that happened during Trump's first term, and there's no reason to think anything would start now, although dealing with what started during Biden is not easy. Stopping those things is much more difficult than having them not start.

by knix

I hope you're not claiming it's because of Trump. Israel/Hamas, Russia/Ukraine, etc, all happened during Biden. Nothing like that happened during Trump's first term, and there's no reason to think anything would start now, although dealing with what started during Biden is not easy. Stopping those things is much more difficult than having them not start.

No, both wars were in the making decades ago.

I was going to post about Netanyahu's prominent role in the wars in the Middle East, starting with the Iraq war, but the post got too long, so I fast-forwarded to the present.

Israel-Hamas war.

In my opinion, merits go to Trump for the 18 January 2025 ceasefire agreement, which had three phases.( also, loved ones and relatives of the hostages were turning against Netanyahu for not putting the return safety of the hostages as his priority)

The first phase: a fixed number of hostages were exchanged.

The second phase: IDF troops were supposed to retreat from the Strip but instead Netanyahu ordered the IDF to start bombing Gaza again. ( 19 th March 2025)

He also put Gaza in an aid blockade: no water, no food, no electricity, no medicine..

Zionist Netanyahu's true intent was clear: he wanted Gaza, the land for HIS Greater Israel.

Trump should have stopped supplying bombs and warfare to Netanyahu until he retreated from the Gaza Strip as agreed, instead he let Netanyahu starve a population for months.

That is on Trump.

Netanyahu feels he is the one in charge so, despite the sixth round of nuclear talks between America and Iran being scheduled for Sunday the 15 of June , Netanyahu launched a surprise attack on Iran on Friday the 13 th.

If Trump doesn’t make it clear to Netanyahu who is boss, Netanyahu will continue to cause havoc in the Middle East.

That is on Trump too.

....................................................................

Now Ukraine.

Already in 2008 during a summit, America declared that one day Ukraine would be a member of NATO, and the Russian foreign minister replied: NEVER

Why ?

Because Ukraine was considered a buffer zone between the West and Russia. It had to remain neutral, for obvious reasons.

All this talk of joining NATO and the EU originated from Zelensky, who won the 2019 elections with the support of the United States.

Zelensky is America’s puppet.

The West has been spreading eastward for decades making many eastern countries once under Soviet governance or influence part of NATO and the EU.

The Czech Republic, Hungary, and Poland, who joined in 1999. In 2004, Bulgaria, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Romania, Slovakia, and Slovenia also joined NATO. More recently, Albania and Croatia joined in 2009, Montenegro in 2017, North Macedonia in 2020,

Biden, when he was vice president to Obama, had connections with oligarchs in Ukraine , via his son Hunter (Burisma Holdings Limited) . Biden promised them favours/ contracts in America for money.

America started to train Ukrainian troops in 2015 under Trump‘s administration, but I do believe Trump, had he been re-elected then, he would not have provoked a conflict.

He is a businessman ..he prefers making deals to going to war.

America always knew that Ukraine could not win the war, but that was not America’s objective.

Its goal was to create economic stress with gas and other sanctions implemented immediately at the start of the war in Feb 2022

America was counting on the Russian people revolting and ousting Putin, but instead, Putin avoided Russia’s economy to collapse.

He found new buyers for his gas ( India etc) and started to invest more in his own country rather than in Europe.

Brics is doing fine. Three weeks ago there was the third huge meeting in Brazil of the 10 members. They want now to make new platforms operational and Trump of course, will do his utmost to stop Brics from replacing the dollar in the world market.

Trump could have stopped the war, a lost war at that.

Trump should have declared the war lost ( the frontline since autumn 2023 has advanced westward.. the spring and summer 2023 counterattacks conducted by Ukrainian troops were disasters)

Who wins the war usually gets to dictate the terms.

Putin has won this proxy war . Putin doesn’t want ceasefires, so in the years to come, the hostilities will start again.

It’s time to sit down, admit defeat, and sign peace accords on Putin's terms.

Trump, instead, doesn’t want to declare defeat. He is for freezing the war.

Zelensky prefers to send men to die to the frontline ( the meat grinder) rather than admit he has lost the war.

He wants a ceasefire just to start again when they have built a new army with European forces. The Ukrainian army has been decimated.

The EU keeps declaring that Russia is a threat because EU members want to stay in power. If they were to say Russia is not a threat, there would be no need for the EU or NATO. So Bruxelles continues to support Ukraine with arms and money.

Trump is frustrated because he thought he could threaten and push Putin around, but Putin will not budge. He won this damn war provoked by America, and it cost

the lives of about 250,000 Russian soldiers and left one million maimed.

I feel that Zelensky’s time is running out.

By the time Trump’s 50-day threat expires, Zelensky will be removed.

Had the EU not supported Zelensky, and Trump had declared defeat and stopped sending arms, I think Putin would have ended this war, he clearly won.

I think Trump could have played his cards better.