80% she's their mom, 20% she has dirt on them anyway.

@RodimusConvoy said:

80% she's their mom, 20% she has dirt on them anyway.

...and all of them are just stupid ( too stupid to handle their own lives by themselves) - except for Pope.

@RodimusConvoy said:

80% she's their mom, 20% she has dirt on them anyway.

Well, as we now know, they came crawling back purely for emotional support, hahaha.

@ScorpionQ2 said:

@RodimusConvoy said:

80% she's their mom, 20% she has dirt on them anyway.

...and all of them are just stupid ( too stupid to handle their own lives by themselves) - except for Pope.

Which is by design, and probably why the show is so damn fascinating.

Every single one of them have different fathers, which Smurf drove away. Or rather made sure they were losers to begin with. Why? To infantilize them. Without a father figure who would teach them some measure of independence, they'd always depend on their mommy beyond all sense and reason, and she manipulated that to her own gain. Give them trinkets (money, the high from getting said money (heists), women via parties, etc.) plus a touch of Oedipal complex to make it a done deal. Deran was the first to outright say something about it (when he came out to her).

This is why Jay was such a question mark and the perfect audience surrogate. He had met her once, maybe twice his whole life before his mom died and thus learned independence very early, via taking care of his druggie mom. As such, Smurf's influence isn't as absolute with him as it is with the children she raised. Ironically I think because of that Smurf respects Jay the most out of all her "boys".

Pope is interesting. I figured out around the season finale of the first season, his deal is that he's a mirror image of Smurf. Who she really is, not who she pretends to be. That makes him dangerous and why IMO she even fears him.

@RodimusConvoy said:

Which is by design, and probably why the show is so damn fascinating.

But of course.

I think what makes Pope dangerous is that he is seriously crazy (especially when he is off his meds) and this is why she fears him and because he can and has gone off the deep end and done things on his own both planned and unplanned without help from her and succeeded . They all are afraid of Pope.

Who is Smurf pretending to be?

I don't think she respects Jay the most either- maybe Pope, but really don't think she respects any of them.

@ScorpionQ2 said:

@RodimusConvoy said:

Which is by design, and probably why the show is so damn fascinating.

But of course.

I think what makes Pope dangerous is that he is seriously crazy (especially when he is off his meds) and this is why she fears him and because he can and has gone off the deep end and done things on his own both planned and unplanned without help from her and succeeded . They all are afraid of Pope.

The thing is technically they should all be like Pope, meds or not. You manipulate someone for so long like that, even if they benefit in some way, they will resent you and want to harm you in retaliation. Pope always seems like he's one word away from killing everyone, and that feeling of dread is the only true penance (so far) Smurf has for her actions.

Who is Smurf pretending to be?

Someone other than a horrible human being who sees fit to use her own children/grandchildren. Only a true psychopath would see no problem with that and not only stop but dig in deeper the older she gets. Pope = psychopath, Smurf = pretending not to be a psychopath. Again, fascinating stuff.

I don't think she respects Jay the most either- maybe Pope, but really don't think she respects any of them.

Make no mistake the only person Smurf truly respects is herself. I think she respects Jay as much as she can respect another person, but to her it also meant she felt he could be the easiest to manipulate. She found out that's not the case but luckily she got out of jail soon after that revelation. Pope is fear-based respect, but I guess that counts.

@RodimusConvoy said:

The thing is technically they should all be like Pope, meds or not.

Pope has a mental condition- bi-polar or something.

You manipulate someone for so long like that, even if they benefit in some way, they will resent you and want to harm you in retaliation.

Baz. Look how that turned out for him.

Yes they do resent her and want to retaliate (and have done so) but they are still dependent on her, love her and fear her as stated above.

Pope always seems like he's one word away from killing everyone,

that's why he's my favorite.

and that feeling of dread is the only true penance (so far) Smurf has for her actions.

True.

You see how scared they all looked when they got home to find her out of Jail- they all looked like they their pants (Pope just had his normal kill stare). Did you notice she hugged everyone- except for Pope, and Jay quickly apologized for telling her off when she was behind bars.

Who is Smurf pretending to be?

Someone other than a horrible human being who sees fit to use her own children/grandchildren. Only a true psychopath would see no problem with that and not only stop but dig in deeper the older she gets. Pope = psychopath, Smurf = pretending not to be a psychopath. Again, fascinating stuff.

Truth. Ok, I understand what you are saying.

I don't think she respects Jay the most either- maybe Pope, but really don't think she respects any of them.

Make no mistake the only person Smurf truly respects is herself. I think she respects Jay as much as she can respect another person, but to her it also meant she felt he could be the easiest to manipulate. She found out that's not the case but luckily she got out of jail soon after that revelation. Pope is fear-based respect, but I guess that counts.

Totally agree.

@ScorpionQ2 said:

@RodimusConvoy said:

The thing is technically they should all be like Pope, meds or not.

Pope has a mental condition- bi-polar or something.

You manipulate someone for so long like that, even if they benefit in some way, they will resent you and want to harm you in retaliation.

Baz. Look how that turned out for him.

Yes they do resent her and want to retaliate (and have done so) but they are still dependent on her, love her and fear her as stated above.

Yes. Which goes back to my original point of Smurf deliberately infantilizing them by making sure there was no father figure around. With a father figure, a positive one at least, they'd be able to cut the apron strings permanently. Instead, they'll act out out of frustration of her manipulation but always come back. She literally made sure they either couldn't function on their own (Craig) or have a hard time functioning on their own (Pope).

Pope always seems like he's one word away from killing everyone,

that's why he's my favorite.

Yep.