I agree with you wholeheartedly.

The klingon design isn't that far off Into Darkness. In the future we know the experiment with their genetics and accidentally end up looking more human (TOS), them somewhat revert their genetic makeup to what we see in TNG/DS9. Their culture seems spot on too, with a sprinkling of topical nationalism, cultural purity and martyrdom.

Also seems to be setting up the "white whale" to Michael's Ahab (semi literally).

Loved it.

But really, how many times do we need to see Moby Dick?

Wrath of Khan and First Contact already did Moby Dick--and in a much better way.

True, but I wasn't even referring to just Star Trek. Is someone trying to argue that since Moby Dick was written, it's now impossible to come up with anything new? That sounds like the people who argue that Alien: Covenant was another brilliant retelling of the brilliant Paradise Lost, which they apparently believe is the only story necessary for all of humanity and all of history/future.

@Knixon said:

True, but I wasn't even referring to just Star Trek. Is someone trying to argue that since Moby Dick was written, it's now impossible to come up with anything new? That sounds like the people who argue that Alien: Covenant was another brilliant retelling of the brilliant Paradise Lost, which they apparently believe is the only story necessary for all of humanity and all of history/future.

I don't think anyone has attempted to argue either of those things, no. Any tale of revenge could be seen as a Moby Dick retelling, because it has become the architypal tale of revenge in western literature.

Was making the object of revenge white a little on the nose? Maybe. But we have yet to see enough to judge it fairly.

I think it's possible to have a "tale of revenge" without it becoming another Moby Dick. Were the Under Siege movies about revenge? You betcha. Were they retelling Moby Dick again? I hardly think so.

These days especially, I would have to argue that if someone turns their "tale of revenge" into another retelling of Moby Dick, it's not an accident. They're trying to copy "great literature" with the expectation that by doing so, what they write is also "great literature" as a result. But it doesn't really work. Mostly we - or at least I - recognize the obvious attempt and scoff at it.

I loved the first 2 episodes. That's how I remember feeling watching Star Trek as a kid.

Hopefully the quality stays up like this. I'm excited to watch more.

Hey Travis. I've sent a few more suggestion emails in the recent past, no responses but I hope you've gotten them okay.

Hi @Knixon Yes, I received them.

@Master_YODA said:

I really liked the first 2 episodes (both on Netflix Germany). The actors, sets, costumes, sfx and action was almost cinema worthy.

• Captain Philippa, First Officer Michael and Saru had a great chemistry
• Great sets, costumes and make up

It did had the feel of a Borg 2 parter of the old days.

• to many optical flares ;)

Didn´t mind the Klingon make over. They did this a lot over the last decades ;)

Really looking forward to the next episode! Hope that somehow the Captain survived... I doubt it - but I immediately liked her :(

Flare in the first episode. Captain and first officer's italian voices too low in the second one. I Hope will be better in the coming episodes.

@Knixon said:

I think it's possible to have a "tale of revenge" without it becoming another Moby Dick. Were the Under Siege movies about revenge? You betcha. Were they retelling Moby Dick again? I hardly think so.

These days especially, I would have to argue that if someone turns their "tale of revenge" into another retelling of Moby Dick, it's not an accident. They're trying to copy "great literature" with the expectation that by doing so, what they write is also "great literature" as a result. But it doesn't really work. Mostly we - or at least I - recognize the obvious attempt and scoff at it.

Under Siege - no. But only because he actually gets his revenge. If Tommy Lee Jones' character had won, and Segal left penniless or in prison because of his actions it would ABSOLUTELY be comparible to Moby Dick. Moby Dick is a revenge story but is about the futility of its pursuit. Ahab loses everything in his pursuit - and if we think at this point that Voq is going to be Michael's whale then that actually would be interesting for her character.

The point id that the book is the archetype of that type of story. Tragic revenge tales aren't all trying to be Moby Dick, but they will always be compared...

I think the problem comes from too many people comparing any revenge tale to Moby Dick regardless of the actual outcome - or even if the outcome isn't known yet, as with ST:D - just because they think it makes them sound literate and wise.

In the case of the "monster" found on the U.S.S. Glenn, "Moby Dick" seeks the darkness, but also revels in the light of the Spores. Capt. Lorca, who "studies War to get the best result" looks/sounds like Capt. Ahab, or "General Leslie Groves" of The Manhattan Project. Can this ship full of "Robert Oppenheimers" be changed into "Edward Tellers," at least for the duration of the war with the Klingons? And can the nearly discarded Torch Bearer learn from Klingon matriarchs?