Discuss Star Trek: Discovery

By the way, in "The Tholian Web," Spock states that there has never been a mutiny aboard a starship. Therefore, "Discovery" is impossible.

(Spock actually says "no record" which some might claim means it was covered up, but it was common knowledge at the time and TOS takes place only 10 years later.)

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Spock lied. That's the only plausible explanation. It could never be that the writers of Discovery didn't do their research. That would NEVER happen.

Seriously though, it could be that Michael's "mutiny" is later expunged, plus as a Vulcan Spock may not see it as a legit mutiny, i.e. it's not on record.

I went into this series knowing I'd be better off viewing it as a reboot/alternate timeline type situation. I do like it, but I'd agree there's a different feel than the TNG era.

The writers have said that all discrepancies, including the different Klingon look, uniforms, etc. will be addressed. We shall see.

And wouldst that were the only example of it. Sigh.

"It's only a 'Mutiny' if it's in the unclassified records. Here at Unit 31, the ruler is made of rubber and 'war crimes' are judged after the war is over." Welcome to the world of "Star Trek: Unit 31," where the ethical code is written by Weyland Yutani Industries. Ensign, don't go through that portal, it isn't feeding time for our mutant Tribble.

by Knixon:

By the way, in "The Tholian Web," Spock states that there has never been a mutiny aboard a starship. Therefore, "Discovery" is impossible.

(Spock actually says "no record" which some might claim means it was covered up, but it was common knowledge at the time and TOS takes place only 10 years later.)


I just binge watched the first 7 episodes...so I may have got some points muddled.

I thought Star Trek : Discovery was part of the alternate timeline created by Nero....

"The Tholian Web " episode you mention happened instead in the Prime time where Spock nor his father had anything to do with a human child named Michael Burnham .

Isn't it just possible that the war with the Klingons began in another way that had nothing to do with Michael Burnham , in the Prime time ?...are there any records for how the war actually began in the Prime time ?

No, it's been stated that Discovery is not happening in the alternate timeline, in part because they didn't want to have to deal with any conflicts that might arise between their stories and alternate-timeline movies that have not yet been made.

Apparently conflicts between their stories and what we already know from the Prime timeline, don't concern them. Sigh.

Spock was merely hiding the fact that his adoptive sister was a mutineer. If he had admitted there had been only one case of a mutiny in Starfleet history, he might have to explain that the mutineer was a member of his family.

by Knixon:

No, it's been stated that Discovery is not happening in the alternate timeline, in part because they didn't want to have to deal with any conflicts that might arise between their stories and alternate-timeline movies that have not yet been made.

Apparently conflicts between their stories and what we already know from the Prime timeline, don't concern them. Sigh.

@I would have preperred Star Trek : Discovery played in the alternate timeline...JJ.Abrams movies didn't make sense half the time anyway .


By the way, in "The Tholian Web," Spock states that there has never been a mutiny aboard a starship. Therefore, "Discovery" is impossible.

@ It is possible that in time Michael Burnham becomes member of section 31 ..in this case her existence and past history of mutineer could have been erased from Starfleets records.

I find more of an issue the cloaking device ...wasn't the cloaking device yet unknown to Kirk and Spock in "Balance of Terror ?

Well, that gets a bit complicated. Those were Romulans not Klingons, for one thing. And the Romulans had cloaking technology for Balance. They also had it for the Enterprise series, so it shouldn't have "surprised" Kirk and Spock like it did. But Enterprise screwed up other things too, for example in Enterprise season 4 the Romulans had warp drive, but in Kirk's time they didn't.

@Knixon

My knowledge of the series "Enterprise "is near to 0.

Thanks for filling me in!

@Knixon said:

Well, that gets a bit complicated. Those were Romulans not Klingons, for one thing. And the Romulans had cloaking technology for Balance. They also had it for the Enterprise series, so it shouldn't have "surprised" Kirk and Spock like it did. But Enterprise screwed up other things too, for example in Enterprise season 4 the Romulans had warp drive, but in Kirk's time they didn't.

Enterprise didn't screw it up in this instance, as TOS/TNG was inconsistent regarding Romulan warp drive: Warp Drive and Romulan History...

I'm pretty sure Romulans in TOS didn't have warp drive until they started using the Klingon ship designs. Which was actually just written into the story because the Romulan ship model had been ruined. The Romulans in TNG were using "war birds" again, of their own design, but by then they'd had a few decades to copy/adapt warp technology from the Klingons.

@Knixon said:

I'm pretty sure Romulans in TOS didn't have warp drive until they started using the Klingon ship designs. Which was actually just written into the story because the Romulan ship model had been ruined. The Romulans in TNG were using "war birds" again, of their own design, but by then they'd had a few decades to copy/adapt warp technology from the Klingons.

Ignoring Enterprise, focusing on TOS, why would the Romulans be such a threat if they didn't have warp capable vessesls?

Info about the model being damaged near the end here, along with usage of the D7 Klingon battle cruiser: Romulan Bird-of-Prey (23rd century)

The question of whether the Bird-of-Prey had warp capability is one without an easy answer. The Star Trek Encyclopedia claims that the vessel only had impulse engines. Scott's precise line from "Balance of Terror", however, actually says "their power is simple impulse," possibly referring to their power generators, not necessarily their propulsion system. Kirk did say "We can outrun them", which seems to imply that the "impulse" Scott was referring to was in fact the propulsion system. It seems reasonable to assume that Scott meant that they did not use the same type of power system (matter/antimatter reaction) used by the Federation, and that the Romulan ship was capable of propelling itself faster than light with the (rather large) engines it mounted, inducing a warp effect by a simpler, brute-force method.

Whatever was said, the Romulans must have some form of faster-than-light drive or they could not have engaged the Earth in an interstellar war in the 22nd century. Perhaps the fuller meaning of Scott's line is that the Romulans did not have FTL drive of the same type or capabilities as the current type of warp drive used by the Enterprise, or that the early cloak required so much power that it couldn't be used at the same time as warp engines.

Visual evidence (such as the presence of warp nacelle-like objects on the model) also suggest that the ship had faster-than-light capability, as does the fact that the Enterprise was traveling at warp speeds for much of the engagement with the Romulans.

I only found one mention of Romulans giving the Klingons cloaking tech in exchange for D7s and warp capability, but doesn't make sense with what happened in Balance of Terror...

Well, I'm not sure what the debate is supposed to be. In "Balance of Terror" Scotty says the Romulan ship has "simple impulse" drive. The Romulan war must have taken place close to the Romulan systems, considering the outposts were nearby too. Maybe we should think of it like Germany vs the US in WW II. The Germans never had any planes/bombers that could reach the US, but the US had long-range bombers. So the Federation ships engaged the Romulan ships close to the Romulan systems. So they didn't need warp drive, but the Federation ships needed it because they had much farther to go.

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