Harun is really getting on my nerves now with his constant eating - if he really ate that much he would be too fat to pass a medical for the police force. He is forever picking up any passing food item in people's houses and asking for biscuits - if you put him in a field for long enough he would probably eat the grass - you wouldn't need a mower. He would also fail a psych eval with his out of control jealousy. Mind - most of the team would as well. I can't see Behzat getting back with Bahar - she is horrified by his actions. No - I think the tide is turning towards the female prosecutor - she is acting very girlish around him now. I am horrified by the scale of the thefts you describe - when you think what those monies could fund - hospitals - health care - nursing homes - orphanages etc - all the things that rely on charities - it is disgraceful. There is something I don't like about Bahar's son - not just his character - the person himself - he doesn't look right physically - he looks like a man in a child's body - it makes me uncomfortable when I see him.

OK, it's not just me then. Bahaar's son has nothing going for him. I can't put it into words, but you're right, there is something really weird about his looks. He is scrunched down or something. And his attitude matches his appearance, just repulsive. This show wants to be more supportive of basic human rights for women, in my opinion, though on the surface it may seem to be promoting violence against women. But I don't think it is, I think it is examining an issue which is a reality in that culture. Do you notice how they are critical of honor killings even though they are legal under Sharia law? I think the show keeps focusing on violence against women to bring the issue to the forefront. This is an issue which Muslims don't like to talk to non-Muslims about because it is very difficult for them to defend it. I actually saw a video on Youtube of some Imam explaining how it was an expression of love when a man beats his wife as permitted in Islam. One of the proofs of this he gave is that the man is not permitted to leave scars on her face which would make her ugly! Yeah, sounds like true love, eh? So you may be right that it is this issue which troubled the censors in Turkey. Because to westerners looking at this, it is outrageous and even bizarre. Bahaar's weird little son actually scolds his mother, he speaks to her in a manner which no son in the west would do. I don't mean that he argues or is disrespectful, because that can happen anywhere. I mean that he talks to her as if he has the authority that her husband might feel entitled to. What son presumes to tell his mother with whom she can be friends?And Bahaar doesn't tell him that it is none of his business, or become furious that he patronized his own mother, as any woman in the west would do. She was raised in that culture as well and has to work from inside of it. The son tries to appease his mother as a practical matter, but he feels completely justified in deciding with whom she may be friends. I think the reason this show focuses on this stuff is to let people see how nuts and backward and repressive it is. I think they are working for a positive change in human rights for their people, though they have to do it in baby steps. Frankly I would like to see someone punch that little shithead right in the nose.

I do believe Behzat and the prosecutor will become an item. When her divorce case was settled she went straight to the bar to meet with him, and she had that look in her eyes. I think you are right on that score also.

And with Huran. He is like a human food vacuum cleaner. If he goes into someone's home to question a person of interest or even just a potential witness, he will always notice whatever food items are visible and grab a bite for himself. And tea, how much tea do those people drink? I thought people in Turkey liked that thick coffee you can stand a spoon up in. But they are always drinking tea.

I guess there are no such things as harassment laws in Turkish workplaces. Eda would surely have a case. How many times has Behzat warned Huran to forget about Eda and leave things alone. And Huran may agree to do so, but he seems to lack any sort of control over himself. I am reminded of an article by a Danish psychologist, which I think I may have mentioned at some point, in which he explained that Muslim men who show anger are respected, as opposed to western culture where we tend to view men who display angry outbursts as having issues.

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I am wondering if Cevdet will eventually learn to be a good detective. I am picturing him learning things from those books he is reading about interrogation and signs someone is lying, and then using them to good effect in some case. I can picture him helping get a break in a case in which Harun has laughed at him and put him down. Behzat will congratulate on Cevdet for putting in the effort to learn something and contribute to solving cases, and possibly give him some constructive advice to keep him from letting it go to his head. Harun will be angry that the new kid got praise. Behzat will slap the back of his head, maybe, and ask him why he doesn't read books to try to better himself. Something like that. I don't know, but I wonder if we might eventually see something like that. Cevdet is trying so I think he may wind up becoming a useful detective at some point. Harun will not like this of course.

By the way, sorry for going on and on about Muslim culture. I'm not against Muslims per se, and there are many great people who were raised as Muslims. But the culture in many of those eastern and middle eastern countries is the last thing I would want any female member of my family to experience. It is very male dominated. I don't mean to sound like a feminist, because I am not, but on certain issues our positions may appear to align. In the issue with Bahaar and her weird little son, you can see how the males in the family are given authority and power over the women in the family. The mother should be in charge of her son while he lives under her roof, but because of the culture there, he acts like the head of the household. Also there is this issue of family honor which is very strong in that culture. If the female acts in some way which is considered to dishonor the family, they may punish her harshly, disown her, or even kill her "to restore the family honor". I know you also find this abhorrent. Clearly, this culture doesn't recognize the sovereignty of the individual, the basic human right of the individual to choose their own path, to pursue happiness so long as doing so doesn't infringe upon another's basic human rights.

I think you are right about the agenda of undermining the Muslim attitude towards subjugating and beating women. If beating is an expression of love then why can't a loving wife beat the poop out of her husband? I don't know what episode you are on - but Behzat gets tarted up for a special occasion - it shows him having his hair cut - but it didn't make much difference. That blasted female is back - trying to catch him again - it's a very political episode with different branches of law enforcement and counter intelligence trying to oust each other and replace them with their own men. These episodes go on for too long - an hour is long enough for my ever decreasing brain cells to take in. I am glad that you get the same vibes as me off Bahar's son - I have read someplace that Muslim women must obey any and all men in the house - including husbands fathers brothers and sons. They must be terrified of women in that culture - why subjugate them otherwise. I get instincts about people that I am usually disbelieved about. I have hated Jimmy Saville since he was a DJ on "Top of the Pops" a lifetime ago - I only had to look at him and shivers ran down my spine. I don't know if you know to whom I am referring. He is dead now - he started off as a DJ and became a celebrity tv host on programs like "Jim'll fix it" - he visited hospitals - was forever at charity events - was made a sir for all his good works. Then it started to come out that he had been abusing children for decades - the hospitals he visited were all children's hospitals and he abused the kids there on a regular basis. He is reckoned to be Britain's worst paedophile. They stripped him of his peerage after death and destroyed his tombstone. But I always knew - when nobody else suspected him - I didn't know exactly what - but I knew he was an evil man. Same kind of thing with George Michael - I recognised he was gay from the first moment I set eyes on him years ago. People were astonished when he came out because he always appeared everywhere with a woman on each arm - he never fooled me - and I can't understand how he fooled anybody else. Same with Liberace - he was adored by thousands of women and yet he made my flesh creep. I think he was obvious though - to many people. But it's all in Bahar's son's eyes - there is a darkness - I think he will do something terrible in the future.

I think you are right about the agenda of undermining the Muslim attitude towards subjugating and beating women. If beating is an expression of love then why can't a loving wife beat the poop out of her husband? I don't know what episode you are on - but Behzat gets tarted up for a special occasion - it shows him having his hair cut - but it didn't make much difference. That blasted female is back - trying to catch him again - it's a very political episode with different branches of law enforcement and counter intelligence trying to oust each other and replace them with their own men. These episodes go on for too long - an hour is long enough for my ever decreasing brain cells to take in. I am glad that you get the same vibes as me off Bahar's son - I have read someplace that Muslim women must obey any and all men in the house - including husbands fathers brothers and sons. They must be terrified of women in that culture - why subjugate them otherwise. I get instincts about people that I am usually disbelieved about. I have hated Jimmy Saville since he was a DJ on "Top of the Pops" a lifetime ago - I only had to look at him and shivers ran down my spine. I don't know if you know to whom I am referring. He is dead now - he started off as a DJ and became a celebrity tv host on programs like "Jim'll fix it" - he visited hospitals - was forever at charity events - was made a sir for all his good works. Then it started to come out that he had been abusing children for decades - the hospitals he visited were all children's hospitals and he abused the kids there on a regular basis. He is reckoned to be Britain's worst paedophile. They stripped him of his peerage after death and destroyed his tombstone. But I always knew - when nobody else suspected him - I didn't know exactly what - but I knew he was an evil man. Same kind of thing with George Michael - I recognised he was gay from the first moment I set eyes on him years ago. People were astonished when he came out because he always appeared everywhere with a woman on each arm - he never fooled me - and I can't understand how he fooled anybody else. Same with Liberace - he was adored by thousands of women and yet he made my flesh creep. I think he was obvious though - to many people. But it's all in Bahar's son's eyes - there is a darkness - I think he will do something terrible in the future.

I am still working my way through episode 7. They have just taken Harun's dad to the fixer, with the eggs and sunglasses for the old woman and the blind man. I've been doing other things today and only watch it a bit in between tasks. Just got off the phone with a sister. I may drive down to Florida for a few days later this month for a visit; the plans on that are still up in the air.

I will finish this episode soon though and I plan to watch 8 tonight as well. I didn't know anything about Jimmy Saville; I only heard his name after he was dead and it was revealed that he abused children. The sad fact is that there are a great many, powerful and influential people who are pedo's. I think they like to promote each other, appoint them as judges and into other powerful positions, as a means of protecting each other. Hillary Clinton and her friends are rumored to be among that crowd. I should say there is only circumstantial evidence but there is a fair amount of that. Google "spirit cooking" sometime if you want to read some disturbing things about her friends.

So Behzat tries to look less shabby for a special occasion. I am assuming there is a woman involved somehow. Could it be our prosecutor lady? They will keep gunning for him, and he will keep escaping any real trouble.

Well - I always keep in mind that he is in a lot more episodes so this kind of plot development is quite pointless really. They do the same thing in virtually every show about cops in particular. Clint Eastwood for instance - was there ever a time that his job was not under threat and he was not in conflict with his superiors. How many times have cops been suspended and thrown their guns and badges and warrant cards down on the table - only to reappear a few minutes later. It's a well worn device. It is a lie by Sule that causes him a lot of grief. I would chuck her out. She acts like a child - she got on my nerves from the beginning - she seems such an unnecessary character. So you are going to Florida - how lovely. I have never been out of Britain. My daughter has been to Florida though and to Las Vegas. Is it a long drive? My geography is not to wonderful! Be sure to drive around the sink holes!! Is it true that women don't wear tights or is that pantyhose you call them - in Florida? I think I heard that mentioned on a C.S.I. Miami episode. The only immaculate looking Turkish men I have seen so far are Ezel and Efe - the other stars of the shows seem like somewhat rough peasantry. Maybe Turks like their heroes to be tough looking - but they go a bit over the top and they just look smelly and unkempt - not my cuppa tea!!

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Harun can't even question a suspect because he can't quit stuffing his mouth with a pastry long enough to get the words out. He even inhaled some of the crumbs while trying to talk. What a slob. I know they try to show his "good side", the good son, but it's barely enough to balance his slovenly bad side.

I'm watching the identical twin sisters murder case now. Identical but very different girls. Hit on the head with a vase, a very deadly vase I guess. And she was on drugs apparently. Vulture is an idiot. "It's always the twin." Behzat and his team drink beer on the job. lol. Things are done differently in Ankara.

Asli came in to give her statement. Harun looked at her and got stupid. Asli isn't all that hot, in my opinion, but Harun got a real case of 'stupid' when he looked at her. And Harun isn't terribly bright to start with. Not usually stupid, but not a member of Mensa either. He couldn't find a way to make sense, even to himself. He was just about to go "ma ma" and start suckling. Behzat wisely sent him for tea.

Harun conned his way into the photo shoot. Selim was asked to be the cop model. Naturally Harun had a fit when he saw the Selim posters and tore them down.

Episode 10 I am getting more and more sick of Harun. In the first episode I don't recall him being such a child.

Sule is more trouble than she is worth. But Behzat is attached to her, has grown fond of her.

actually second comment this time:

I read somewhere that Sule has a more important role later in the show. We will see. Right now Behzat is searching for her after her meddling sent him into a tailspin and she wouldn't stop with her incessant "it's not so bad, you should keep trying" chatter so he told her to get out of his room and she split.

In the hot months a lot of women go bare legged, but they wear hosiery other times. Florida is a long state. If I were going all the way to Miami it would take 14 hours driving time. I am going to Naples this time though. I have not driven straight there before. It is not quite as far down the state but it's on the west coast and I have to take different roads to get there. I have a friend in the north part of the state I have not seen in years and I may stop there on the way back and spend the night, break up the drive back. The spectre of a sink hole is terrible to think about, but I am more likely to be hit by lightning so I guess I won't worry about it.

I am up to ep12 now. He is looking for more clues about his daughter Berna's death, apparent suicide, but I suspect otherwise. I think he will begin looking into that and it may be the background case for the season.

It would never have worked out with BaHarpie. Her whacko weird son Ulas would have bashed his head in while he was sleeping. Plus her strident, leftie, radical, anti police stance would have caused friction. There's not enough love in the world to cover up that kind of contempt.

Harun really is a child. And he displays that Muslim "I'm your brother and if you're chatting with a boy I will break your computer" nonsense. Of course, when he sees a girl he likes he finds nothing wrong with talking to her. It is like he doesn't think. I assessed him as 'not stupid' in the beginning, and while not retarded, he is certainly immature and is not the sharpest guy in the office by far. I think all of them have more brain power than he does. I was a bit premature in my assessment of him.

So you are ahead of me again - you will have seen the twins plot - I am confused again - did she say she made two journeys - one to take her belongings back and one to remove the body - I can't remember. Her stepfather saw her arrive in a yellow taxi and come out with some bags - the taxi drove away - he didn't say what happened after that. She must be a pretty strong woman in a pretty deserted area to carry a body out to her car unobserved and then carry it into her apartment - also unobserved. I hate twins plots - they are all the same. I am on Ep 11 now - Behzat is doing the drunk rejection thing which is odd because he hadn't seen Bahar for years and wasn't too keen on even meeting her. She should have said yes - if only to infuriate her horrendous son. Doesn't he know that the lady prosecutor is interested in him? At least she knows the realities of life and will accept what he does without shock and horror. Maybe they should buy a nose-bag for Harun - it would save on biscuits.

I believe the twin took everything with her in her sister's car, stopping first at the bar to establish an alabi, and then changing clothes after taking the body to her place, and then screaming. She didn't appear to me capable of lifting her own body weight. And lifting a body isn't easy, because the center of gravity isn't right next to you, but a little away from you, and it shifts as the body does. Maybe she drug it (dragged it?) instead of lifting all the weight.

And also, as you pointed out, wouldn't someone see her dragging a huge bag? She lived in the poor side of town, so I am assuming lots of small apartments crammed close together. And it wasn't real late at night so people would have been awake, and presumably some of them would be out. And there are always nosey neighbors who like to watch who comes and goes. But....she got lucky, I guess.

Bahar's son would have tried to kill Behzat in his sleep, or sometime somewhere. That kid has mental problems. But he is a Muslim male so nobody notices. I didn't mean that as a pejorative against all Muslims, but it came out that way. And Bahar has changed a LOT. I mean, there was no indication that she was a strident leftist radical type who hates the police. Behzat is better off with the prosecutor as you said. I expect that to develop eventually.

I am halfway through ep 11 - Behzak is now beating up kids - don't these young people have parents? If my child came home from the police station looking like that heads would roll. Thought I recognised Ismael - Fatma's knitwear selling bone idle husband in Winter Sun - is it him? He seems to be following somebody, he was outside Behzak's place when somebody seemed to be moving in next door - also Ezel's girlfriend Eysan? makes an appearance somewhere in this series. This episode revolves around him questioning kids about Berna - I am getting tired of his vision/memories of her as a child. I think Bahar is going to be arrested or some such nonsense and will need his help and support - this will not please prosecutor lady. Please don't tell me that Sule is going to be a murder suspect later on - I'd much rather she was a murder victim. Oh well - back to the plot - I am catching you up.

Yes, that is Fatma's lazy husband. In this show he is a neighbor of Behzat and Sule befriends him. I think he gives her a ride home one evening also. His name is Tayyar. In episode 12, which I am halfway through, so about 1 episode ahead of you now, Behzat meets him outside with Sule. He sends her inside and then asks him how old he is. He says 42. (WHAT? He must have a form of progeria or something, that prematurely aging disease.) Behzat tells him to stop hanging around Sule. He acts like he doesn't understand, and Behzat says you know what I am talking about. And then goes inside. I can't tell if the guy is just a good neighbor, or if he is a creep with a thing for young girls.

And yes, Eysan is somebody named Songul in Behzat, but according to IMDB it looks like she is only in one episode.

As to the police brutality in this show, yes there is a lot of it. Of course, there is also a LOT of slapping people in the face, mostly women who "shame" their family member with a raised tone of voice or something. I am guessing that getting slapped around over there isn't an uncommon occurrence. So maybe nobody thinks to report it. Or maybe if they did, they would get slapped for reporting it. lol I can picture someone trying to sue a police officer for slapping his face. When the judge hears the charge, he reaches over the bench and slaps the plaintiff across the face and warns him not to waste the court's time with trivial issues or he will get a good caning. lol

Or maybe it is a form of greeting. Good morning [SLAP]

I think there is a different twist about Sule

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Huran is deteriorating emotionally, and he wasn't ever a really stable personality to begin with. He is one of those people who continually imagine offense, insult, or injury from others, while in fact causing offense, insult, or injury to others. When others have finally had enough and tell him truthfully that he is rude, he is so sensitive that he acts like a victim and storms out, pushing people as he goes. He is worse than a two year old having a tantrum. Behzat needs to stop treating him with sympathy, stop enabling him, and punish him each time he acts up. IMDB shows him in 96 episodes. I hope to God something happens to change him. Maybe his asinine and petulant behavior will inspire someone to beat him senseless and he will be in the hospital for several months. They could just have him in each episode for a couple minutes, in a body cast. Maybe Behzat will start slapping him whenever he opens his mouth and condition him to quit acting like such a jerk every minute. It would be nice if someone murdered him and the team could pin a medal on them, I mean, track down his killer. But I know that won't happen because he is in so many episodes. But he is wearing on my nerves. He is a slob, a buffoon, a mental midget with a big mouth, always shouting to show he is a moron who wants to be in charge. Letting him be a police officer is akin to giving the nuclear launch codes to a delusional, paranoid, schizophrenic teenage boy, maybe worse. The schizophrenic can be medicated and counseled. Huran is unteachable, and uncontrollable. Behzat tells him to leave Eda alone and Huran says "OK", but the next moment he is fighting over her again. He has no control over his emotions. And worse, he feels justified in breaking his word if he becomes emotional. "Why did you do what you promised you wouldn't do?" His response is something like "I couldn't help it, I like her and she shouldn't be with that idiot."

I wonder if behavioral conditioning would work with someone like that. I mean using negative reinforcement. I joked about using electric shock on Tekin to prevent him using the word "love". Now I wonder if it could be used on an idiot like Huran to stop his outbursts. Zap him each time he acts up, abuses others, has a fit, gets angry over things not going his way, etc. Zap him and tell him what he did wrong. He would learn to stop before speaking, out of fear of the shock. But could he be taught to see why he was wrong? It wouldn't be ethical to do that, of course. But in theory, could it teach him where he is wrong, and train him to control his emotions?

The only way to train Harun is via his greatest weakness - food. If he behaves himself and is not rude violent and emotional he gets fed - if he doesn't - he starves. Oh how I would love to see that!! He would probably lose about 70lbs (see I would say 5 stone but I have to convert all the time!!) in the first month and then he would begin to put two and two together - he's not too swift so it may take longer!! In a normal world one of them would have been moved to a different department - probably Harun - as he is the one causing all the conflict - but this is tellyland - besides which it is easier than developing real interpersonal conflicts. So now Behzat is searching for the footage of the night Berna fell - he has accused every man of his acquaintance so far who has a grey beard with white patches - so I guess he has about half of Turkey still to go. And what is with all this drinking - I thought Muslims couldn't consume alcohol. I remember a case in Saudi Arabia many years ago - a young nurse called Helen Smith went to a party in her doctor colleagues home with her boyfriend - I think he was Dutch - there were other Muslims present plus the doctor's wife. Helen ended up at the bottom of the apartment building about six storeys below - her body thrown up against the wall of the building - which would have been impossible because each floor had projecting balconies - her boyfriend ended up impaled on the railings in front of the building. Nobody would tell the truth of what happened - they claimed it was a drunken fight between Helen and her boyfriend during which they had both fallen off the balcony. Nobody was ever charged and the case remains open - her father fought for years to find the truth but was blocked at every turn. I mention this because one of the theories was that it was a drinking party and the Moslems present were high ranking and would have faced a great deal of censure - perhaps ruin - had it been known they were drinking. It was back in 1979. It is an interesting case if you google Helen Smith murder Saudi Arabia. I may have got some details wrong - but I think I am mostly correct. The elite always win - nothing changes.