I saw a reference to Edith Thompson while reading about Ruth Ellis and read up on that case. I think you have it about right. I think Freddy was most likely the driving force in feeding her fantasies about killing her husband. She may have tried the ground up glass in his food trick at his suggestion. But that doesn't work very quickly I think. You can have an intestinal bleed for a long time. Whether Edith was aware that Freddy planned to attack Percy or not, I believe it would have been Freddy who came up with the plan. Edith as you say was highly sexed, and smitten with Freddy. In such a scenario I imagine that Edith would have listened to Freddy's ideas and followed along. People have done some very odd, and crazy things when motivated by love, or strong sexual desire and infatuation. I can see it happening either way. He may have told her to take a walk with Percy down that lane that evening, and she may have done what he said. OR- Freddy might have gotten worked up to do something on his own and surprised them with an attack.

I tend to think she knew he was going to attack. They talked to each other so much and discussed his death so much that I find it easy to imagine Freddy telling Edith about his plan.

The sexual mores double standard seems to have been around throughout history. Why is that? I don't know but it was there and is still there today. Women especially, call other women sluts, whores, tramps, etc. if they date more than one man but regarding men they seem to like the bad boys, the men who date multiple women. Men who sleep with one woman and then another are generally seen as red blooded, confident, and desirable, in some ways. Women don't like to marry such men unless they feel they will not stray once married, but they seem drawn to them. Some of these guys are seen as dogs, low character types, but even they are often seen as desirable. But women who sleep around are viewed differently quite often, even by some of the women who object to "slut shaming".
Men can be bad about it. But from my point of view, women treat each other more harshly and can be more mean to each other. Of course, that is a man's point of view. You may notice things I overlook.

I expect psychologists may have an answer as to why double standards have existed for so long - I think that men in the past (and even today) - to ensure that their line was pure sought to marry virgins. So virginity was the currency to attracting a desirable mate and women who wanted security and respectability adhered to this rule. Men - of course - didn't have to. This is why Charles could not marry Camilla in 1974 - because she was not a virgin. There could be no doubt as to the purity of the wife of the prince and the paternity of their children. I think women are extremely jealous by nature and if a man shows any interest in any other woman it has to be because that woman is a whore - not because she is attractive to men or more attractive than the woman who is denigrating her. As for women being attracted to bad boys - maybe its because they offer an element of risk - of danger even - that contrasts to the Mr 9 til 5 Honey I'm home husband, but most women still choose the latter because they are above all things - practical and practiced in the art of survival. Women are indeed capable of extreme harshness when it comes to each other - in my view sisterhood goes out of the window when Mr Wonderful walks in through the door and that is their major weakness because they are still allowing men to dominate their feelings.

@strangebedfellows said:

I expect psychologists may have an answer as to why double standards have existed for so long - I think that men in the past (and even today) - to ensure that their line was pure sought to marry virgins. So virginity was the currency to attracting a desirable mate and women who wanted security and respectability adhered to this rule. Men - of course - didn't have to. This is why Charles could not marry Camilla in 1974 - because she was not a virgin. There could be no doubt as to the purity of the wife of the prince and the paternity of their children. I think women are extremely jealous by nature and if a man shows any interest in any other woman it has to be because that woman is a whore - not because she is attractive to men or more attractive than the woman who is denigrating her. As for women being attracted to bad boys - maybe its because they offer an element of risk - of danger even - that contrasts to the Mr 9 til 5 Honey I'm home husband, but most women still choose the latter because they are above all things - practical and practiced in the art of survival. Women are indeed capable of extreme harshness when it comes to each other - in my view sisterhood goes out of the window when Mr Wonderful walks in through the door and that is their major weakness because they are still allowing men to dominate their feelings.

You make some good points: the man who marries a virgin supposes that her children must be his. It occurs to me also that men benefit from marrying virgins another way. They cannot be compared to other men. If she has known no other man, then he is the best she's ever had! haha. I don't know if that really factored in, but perhaps it did. The idea of being faithful in marriage is very important. It helps provide for a more stable home for the children. I think that broken homes conversely may contribute to children with lower self esteem, for whatever reasons. Sometimes kids blame themselves for failed marriages, or they feel unloved and adopt behaviors seeking love and security which are less than healthy.

I think the comparison issue definitely factors in - men can be very sensitive about their manhood and it matters a lot to them to be considered good lovers - the greatest insult you can offer a man is that he is less than perfect in bed - it destroys his ego - so yes - I think you make a valid suggestion. I think a stable marriage benefits children only if it is a happy one - my parents stayed together for the duration of their lives - but they were not happy - we were a dysfunctional family and it did lead to a lot of issues for my brother in particular and for myself. I have a horror of raised voices and arguments and low self esteem - I am very non confrontational - my brother on the other hand took exactly the opposite track. So maybe a failed marriage where partners separate can actually be better for children than those who stay together. Either way - it is traumatic for children. I just think that children who grow up and become abusers often use their childhood to excuse their behaviour - for me - when you are an adult you make your own choices and you should take responsibility for them.

@write2topcat said:

It occurs to me also that men benefit from marrying virgins another way. They cannot be compared to other men. If she has known no other man, then he is the best she's ever had! haha.

Until she gets curious, wonders what she may be missing, and starts to feel entitled to seek out new experiences.

@DRDMovieMusings said:

@write2topcat said:

It occurs to me also that men benefit from marrying virgins another way. They cannot be compared to other men. If she has known no other man, then he is the best she's ever had! haha.

Until she gets curious, wonders what she may be missing, and starts to feel entitled to seek out new experiences.

If she isn't happy with you, yes. Or if she just doesn't feel committed to the marriage, doesn't love you. But she wouldn't marry you if she didn't love you, except in arranged marriages. Anyway, if she fools around on you, I think the marriage is pretty shaky at best. Or it is just a marriage for show or for security.

@strangebedfellows said:

I think the comparison issue definitely factors in - men can be very sensitive about their manhood and it matters a lot to them to be considered good lovers - the greatest insult you can offer a man is that he is less than perfect in bed - it destroys his ego - so yes - I think you make a valid suggestion. I think a stable marriage benefits children only if it is a happy one - my parents stayed together for the duration of their lives - but they were not happy - we were a dysfunctional family and it did lead to a lot of issues for my brother in particular and for myself. I have a horror of raised voices and arguments and low self esteem - I am very non confrontational - my brother on the other hand took exactly the opposite track. So maybe a failed marriage where partners separate can actually be better for children than those who stay together. Either way - it is traumatic for children. I just think that children who grow up and become abusers often use their childhood to excuse their behaviour - for me - when you are an adult you make your own choices and you should take responsibility for them.

Yes you are right. I guess I was thinking of more ancient times when it was so much harder for single women to raise children on their own. In such times I imagine that a "stable marriage" would provide better shelter, security, and so on for the children. I also imagine that women in ancient times often felt they simply had to weather the storm for the sake of the children and that became their outlook on life. Sad to think about. I'm a guy, but I don't like to think of that. Even in my own lifetime, my parents split up when I was a young boy about 5 years old, and I saw how hard it was on my mother. She worked, and her sister and husband helped us, but it was hard. My dad was an alcoholic. I loved them both dearly. When I became a teenager I was a wild child and began to flirt with danger, almost getting into trouble with the law. That was extremely stressful for my mother. I was sent to live with my dad who would not put up with any nonsense! LOL. I remember once I was doing my homework and got up to get a glass of water. He shouted at me to sit back down and finished my god damned algebra! haha I said I just want a glass of water! Then I finished my algebra. I straightened out, did well in school, went to college an so on. I was able to be a good son to my mother and try to make up for causing her so much worry as a youngster.

You have a conscience and a sense of right and wrong and that brought you through some troubled childhood years - your mother sounds like a wonderful woman - I wish I could say the same. My parents got married for convenience on my fathers side and security on my mothers - love had nothing to do with it. I asked my mother once why did she get married if she didn't love my father - her reply - he was supposed to love me. So sad and so unfair to bring children into that situation.

My parents both loved me, but no parents are perfect. They divorced when I was young, and I guess it was because of Dad's alcoholism. He later started going to Alcoholics Anonymous. When I moved down to live with him I went with him to meetings sometimes. He thought it was good for me to know about his condition and what the meetings are about. Alcoholism affects people from every walk of life, and those meetings are a place where the people are brutally honest about how it has damaged their lives. I actually enjoyed the meetings. The people there are very real. I think everyone appreciates honesty, right? Even if it hurts, or disappoints you to learn it, truth is better. I am in awe of those people who grow up in adverse situations and become inspired to excel in life in various ways.
At the same time it is clear that adverse situations can have lasting effects on us, even if we work hard to overcome them.
Even though my parents split up I still felt lucky. I loved them both and felt they loved me. I know they did. When they died, it was the most painful thing I had to go through.
The best thing you can say about it is that you don't have to go through it again.

Both my parents are dead also - and even though I felt resentment towards them I guess some love remained because I nursed them both through their final illnesses and in my mothers case that took two years. I feel I did my best for them even if they didn't do their best for me. I try to forgive the past and put it down to human frailty but it is very difficult to do.

I have resentments and regrets over some things. I was depressed for a while. I was able to work out of it after some years. I am on the back side of life now so now I just want to make the best of the time I have left.
I'm sorry things were tough for you at home growing up. Maybe you can try what I do if I think of something depressing. I put it off like procrastinating and think about something I like better. Really, I play little mental games like that. If I get stuck in traffic I pretend I am a detective following the person in the car ahead of me. That way I am right where I want to be haha. I know that is kind of dumb, but it feels better than fuming over the traffic jam.

I don't think that is dumb - it's just you pitting your imagination against boredom - human brains are not meant to be left in park for long!! I take refuge in hobbies - I create jewellery at the moment - in the past I have written short stories (had a couple published by magazines) poems - songs ( had one published years ago - a collaborative effort because as you can tell from my previous posts I love words and my function was mainly as a lyricist - mainly country music because they tell a story - it was called "Step mother from hell" many years ago now. I gave up because the industry is so competitive you don't really stand a chance of being published now. I would still do it if I thought I could ever get published though because I loved doing it. I have written two books but didn't attempt to publish them because I recognised that they were more of an emotional purging than anything else. I have an overwhelming need to create and it helps direct my mind to less depressing things thank goodness!!

I need to get back to something creative. I played guitar as a teenager and people thought I was good. I used to make up songs too. I enjoyed doing that even though I never tried to copyright or publish anything. The creative process is important, it is healthy. So I need to get back to that. I know I spend far too much time at this computer.

If you were a budding musician then I strongly advise you to get back to it. I am from a family of musicians - my father played the trumpet and my brother was a guitarist. Both played in bands/groups for most of their lives so music has always been an integral part of my life - I used to compose as well but only inasmuch as I sang the song I wanted to create and had a demo company actually work out what I intended !! I wrote a lot of songs this way!! There is nothing more satisfying than hearing a song that you composed actually performed - it is a wonderful experience - so get off your computer and get back to your guitar - you will never regret it !!!

My first guitar has warped badly; the strings are way off the neck. I sold another guitar I had some years back. I need to buy one. It is on my list.

Have you heard of the show Secret City? It's an Aussie show with two seasons so far. I really like it. Anna Torv plays a journalist who covers political stuff. I usually stay away from political things, but I like this one. It's worth trying out next time you're looking for a good show.