Agreed.. The first 98% was kind of perfect imo. The final twist however was unrealistic, highly unlikely and unnecessary. Felt like ticking off an obligatory 'LMNOP' agenda point.

This is all in the novel by Robert Harris. Did you read it?

No, I didn't.

While the film may be based on a novel, as a moviegoer, there is no obligation to read the source material to appreciate the movie. Many of us choose to watch films precisely because our busy lives don't allow us the time to read novels, and a well-made movie should stand on its own as an independent work of art.

Regardless, it's an extremely poor ending for what was otherwise a great movie.

Neither read the novel or seen the movie, but I think @peterhbg means that the movie's ending follows the novel's and so isn't something created by Hollywood's "woke agenda".

@M.LeMarchand said:

Neither read the novel or seen the movie, but I think @peterhbg means that the movie's ending follows the novel's and so isn't something created by Hollywood's "woke agenda".

Yes, I get that. However, I would argue that they modify scripts all the time from the source material to fit their narrative. That ending was absolutely horrible no matter which way you put it. It was otherwise a great movie.

The movie adaptation process often involves significant changes to fit a director's vision or a studio's desired narrative. While the movie may have followed the novel's ending, it's not uncommon for scripts to be altered to align with current trends or agendas. The fact remains that the ending, regardless of its source, left much to be desired and tainted what could have been an otherwise fantastic film.

It's quite possible that the book was only adopted as a film just because of that ending.

Once again, my criticism isn't on the film itself, it's on the ending of the plot, script and book.

Yep, movies often change a lot of stuff from the books. In this case, it would seem that they did not change the ending.

I‘ve read the novel before and found the ending convincing. In the movie it is not implemented as good as in the novel. So the “fact” of the ending is from the novel, the way of presenting it is a bit different …

I have not watched the movie. But I found it interesting. Pleas can someone please recap the movie a bit for me. Thank you all. 😄

@joeluse said:

I have not watched the movie. But I found it interesting. Pleas can someone please recap the movie a bit for me. Thank you all. 😄

Spoiler

In the film, the main protagonist, who is in charge of the conclave, gradually uncovers that each potential candidate for the papacy harbours a dark secret, such as having a love child or being accused of child molestation. After a terrorist attack occurs outside the conclave, it is ultimately decided that the best candidate for the papacy is a mysterious archbishop who has served in multiple war zones, particularly in Islamic countries like Afghanistan. Said archbishop was invited to the conclave by the previous pope, his existence has remained a secret due to the nature of his archdiocese, which would make him a target for terrorists.

The plot twist reveals that this archbishop, is a male who also possesses female body parts. The previous pope was fully aware when he designated him an archbishop and was supportive. Despite learning this information, the main protagonist chooses not to disclose it as the new pope is being announced, and the movie concludes.

A typical modern Hollywood ending.

What is a "typical modern Hollywood ending"? And why should this movie be called "Hollywood" at all – isn't it a mostly European production? So who's "woke agenda" is shown in the movie?

@peterhbg said:

What is a "typical modern Hollywood ending"? And why should this movie be called "Hollywood" at all – isn't it a mostly European production? So who's "woke agenda" is shown in the movie?

It's a European production, but the influence of Hollywood-style storytelling and the push for Hollywood supported social issues is prevalent.

This film is as Hollywood as it gets. Its adaptation is in itself based on what Hollywood likes and dislikes. It could have just been influenced by the book, but instead it's purposely adapted the controversial ending because it's just so happens to align with what Hollywood, be it the American or European version, likes.

Do you seriously believe that this movie would have gotten made otherwise? I'm not insulted from a religious point of view because I'm not Catholic. But I am insulted as a movie goer for what is a terrible ending that is obviously pushing an agenda.

Hate to break it to you, Peter, but the vast majority of the world doesn't agree with the unscientific pseudo beliefs that Hollywood is into. Even in the Western world, such beliefs are still controversial, with a country like the US being split on the issue. The very fact that you see no problem with the ending and feel enraged at my "audacity" to complain about it says a lot.

Agree or disagree, movie goers watch movies for fun. They don't want agendas and ideologies being pushed on them. This is ultimately why modern movies are failing spectacularly. Because they are politicised and used as propaganda.

A serious movie suddenly decides to become a fantasy, with an ending that includes a transgender becoming Pope. It's incredible that you have the ability to gaslight me by asking what I meant by "typical modern Hollywood ending". You know exactly what I mean.

I don't know where you come from. But it seems that you don't know much about European cinema and European movie goers. And perhaps about the (perhaps mostly European) discussions about the catholic church and their "policy" regarding equality of sexes. As a german movie goer and protestant church member (and Rome enthusiast) I read the novel (and later watched the movie) with all these discussions in mind about men inhabiting all the power in the catholic church – which is pretty good portrayed in the novel and movie. And so for me the ending twist of the novel and the movie was an additional remark on that discussions. It also reminded me of a German movie from 2009 (based on a US-american novel) about a female pope in medieval times (https://www.themoviedb.org/movie/9503-die-paepstin) which also was notices as a contribution to that discussions.

So please consider that there are other interests in such topics than a "woke agenda". Please consider reflecting on your own "agenda". And please realize that not every big movie is "Hollywood" – and the USA are not the world.

@peterhbg said:

I don't know where you come from. But it seems that you don't know much about European cinema and European movie goers. And perhaps about the (perhaps mostly European) discussions about the catholic church and their "policy" regarding equality of sexes. As a german movie goer and protestant church member (and Rome enthusiast) I read the novel (and later watched the movie) with all these discussions in mind about men inhabiting all the power in the catholic church – which is pretty good portrayed in the novel and movie. And so for me the ending twist of the novel and the movie was an additional remark on that discussions. It also reminded me of a German movie from 2009 (based on a US-american novel) about a female pope in medieval times (https://www.themoviedb.org/movie/9503-die-paepstin) which also was notices as a contribution to that discussions.

So please consider that there are other interests in such topics than a "woke agenda". Please consider reflecting on your own "agenda". And please realize that not every big movie is "Hollywood" – and the USA are not the world.

Tempers are hot in America due to the current administration pushing the conspiracy theory that “wokeness” is purely a Liberal American thing. It would seem that 51% of voting Americans fell for the sales pitch.

Like you, I’m a fan of European cinema and I have to laugh whenever someone cries about the “Hollywood woke agenda” because these people need to literally wake up and see that European cinema has been embracing these ideas with much artistry and success since the 1940s postwar years. As always, Americans are the last to get it, probably because the old generation has to die off before anything new can be accepted. And lordy how they put up a fight.

@minymina said:

The plot twist reveals that this archbishop, is a male who also possesses female body parts.

@minymina said:

A serious movie suddenly decides to become a fantasy, with an ending that includes a transgender becoming Pope.

Your own description (above) makes it sound like the character is a hermaphrodite rather than a transexual.

@rooprect said:

@peterhbg said:

I don't know where you come from. But it seems that you don't know much about European cinema and European movie goers. And perhaps about the (perhaps mostly European) discussions about the catholic church and their "policy" regarding equality of sexes. As a german movie goer and protestant church member (and Rome enthusiast) I read the novel (and later watched the movie) with all these discussions in mind about men inhabiting all the power in the catholic church – which is pretty good portrayed in the novel and movie. And so for me the ending twist of the novel and the movie was an additional remark on that discussions. It also reminded me of a German movie from 2009 (based on a US-american novel) about a female pope in medieval times (https://www.themoviedb.org/movie/9503-die-paepstin) which also was notices as a contribution to that discussions.

So please consider that there are other interests in such topics than a "woke agenda". Please consider reflecting on your own "agenda". And please realize that not every big movie is "Hollywood" – and the USA are not the world.

Tempers are hot in America due to the current administration pushing the conspiracy theory that “wokeness” is purely a Liberal American thing. It would seem that 51% of voting Americans fell for the sales pitch.

Like you, I’m a fan of European cinema and I have to laugh whenever someone cries about the “Hollywood woke agenda” because these people need to literally wake up and see that European cinema has been embracing these ideas with much artistry and success since the 1940s postwar years. As always, Americans are the last to get it, probably because the old generation has to die off before anything new can be accepted. And lordy how they put up a fight.

I am literally European. To deny the fact that this movie and other modern films are pushing a narrative is delusional.