I hope that films have a narrative – otherwise most of them would be boring :)))

The complaints about a "narrative" or "agenda" most of the time come from people who wouldn't complain if the "agenda" would push their own political opinion. That's like the (german) discussion like "Should the (protestant) church get involved in political discussions". As long as the church is on the conservative side it cannot be too political …

So as long as movies did push "traditional family values" as the classical family model of father-mother-children (the more the better) or traditional role models for men and women (as most of the movies did for decades) there was no complaint about "narrative" or "agenda" – even if they do it now. But if some of them show another perspective on family, gender role models etc. there must be some bad plan behind it …

Accept it or not: There are different ways to look at the world. And for decades Hollywood depicted one viewpoint – the traditional, conservative one. Now they also (means: in addition) depict some other viewpoints. You will still find (Hollywood and other) movies with traditional and conservative "narratives" and "agendas" – enough to watch one movie each evening for the rest of your life without being disturbed by "modern agendas" :)

I am literally European. To deny the fact that this movie and other modern films are pushing a narrative is delusional.

You missed the point we're all making. You're blaming "Hollywood's woke crap" when the truth is European cinema has been based on progressive ideas since the 1940s. You just seem to be angry about progressive ideas and figured you'd jump on Hollywood-hating to justify yourself. You seem to be very confused as this isn't even a Hollywood production lol

@minymina said:

To deny the fact that this movie and other modern films are pushing a narrative is delusional.

"Modern films are pushing a narrative".

Birth of A Nation pushed a narrative. Was it modern?

Cowboys and Indians movies pushed a narrative. Were they modern?

The trope of the burly manly man having to rescue the damsel in distress pushed a narrative.

Remember in Independence Day when all the world sat on their hands with their thumbs up their butts waiting for America to "show them how to take those bastards down"? That was pushing a narrative.

Some people swallow(ed) and guzzle(d) those narratives while the rest of us have grown sick and tired of them, and are quite refreshed to see OTHER narratives and agendas.

Love or hate whatever agendas and narratives you want, but please don't pretend it does not go both ways. And if you can't see — let alone acknowledge — your own bias in this conversation, the real delusional person in this convo is you, and I'm no less qualified to share that opinion about you than you were to share yours about anyone else in this thread.

As an SF fan, I often shudder to think what would have happened had the internet been a thing in the early days of SF on TV.

Star Trek: They've got a black woman, Jap and Ruskie on the bridge! Woke!

Virtually any Gerry Anderson show from Thunderbirds onwards: Why are they pushing this liberal agenda on our kids? Women pilots! Why are there so many non-White people? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2PoXfZdYVU

You guys can try and justify the ending all you want but it's absolutely ridiculous and you know it. A transgender/hermaphrodite becoming Pope.

Cardinal Benitez wasn't transgender (an individual who identifies with a different gender than the biological one they're born with). He was a hermaphrodite (an individual who possesses both male and female genitalia). In olden times, most hermaphrodites went undetected, as the internal sex organs (whether uterus and ovaries, or undescended testes), were never apparent. But with modern medical techniques ( x-rays, MRIs) they are noticed.

I thought it was a good twist ending, in keeping with the theme of hidden secrets. Cardinals Trembley and Adeyemi were both concealing secrets concerning their morality, which caused them to lose support. And so the cardinals turned to the little known Benitez, who seemed more sincere. However, unknown to the others, Benitez also had a secret, not anything due to morality, but to his biology. But Benitez's secret went unrevealled, and he ended up being the cardinal's choice.