The number of appearances has nothing to do with being a regular. If no one is credited on-screen as a regular, then no one should be added as regular. From your link: "Any actor not credited as a series regular—including but not limited to recurring guest stars, guest stars and co-stars—should be added as a Guest Star instead. These actors not credited as series regulars might appear in one, a few, half, most, or even every episode of a season."

However, in some shows, even if there's no one credited in the opening sequence (due to design choices or whatever), there's a clear separation of the regular cast in the end credits. So it all depends...

@shotfirer said:

The number of appearances has nothing to do with being a regular. If no one is credited on-screen as a regular, then no one should be added as regular. From your link: "Any actor not credited as a series regular—including but not limited to recurring guest stars, guest stars and co-stars—should be added as a Guest Star instead. These actors not credited as series regulars might appear in one, a few, half, most, or even every episode of a season."

However, in some shows, even if there's no one credited in the opening sequence (due to design choices or whatever), there's a clear separation of the regular cast in the end credits. So it all depends...

I guess my interpretation is that the rules arent...well written in some parts. I could be wrong but I feel like in practice, many tv shows, including mainstream ones that are edited by mods themselves, do not have series regular credits and do not have a clear separation of regular cast vs. guest stars in the end credits. But they are still edited to have series regulars. Am I wrong?

@softpillow said:

I guess my interpretation is that the rules arent...well written in some parts.

An understatement of the year :D

I could be wrong but I feel like in practice, many tv shows, including mainstream ones that are edited by mods themselves, do not have series regular credits and do not have a clear separation of regular cast >vs. guest stars in the end credits. But they are still edited to have series regulars. Am I wrong?

Never noticed that. Can you give an example? I'm editing quite a lot of shows myself, from different countries of origin, and all of them have series regulars credited in some distinctive fashion.

I guess sometimes you can use official press materials or a program's website as a secondary source, if on-screen credits are ambiguous. But you might want to get a mod's confirmation on that.

@shotfirer said:

@softpillow said:

I guess my interpretation is that the rules arent...well written in some parts.

An understatement of the year :D

I could be wrong but I feel like in practice, many tv shows, including mainstream ones that are edited by mods themselves, do not have series regular credits and do not have a clear separation of regular cast >vs. guest stars in the end credits. But they are still edited to have series regulars. Am I wrong?

Never noticed that. Can you give an example? I'm editing quite a lot of shows myself, from different countries of origin, and all of them have series regulars credited in some distinctive fashion.

The one that I can think of at the moment since I just watched it is Frayed: https://www.themoviedb.org/tv/93479-frayed/changes?filter_key=key&filter=season_regular (mod added regulars right?). To find other examples Id have to take some time to look into it later.

Unless I'm not aware of what you mean by a clear separation (what that is), I dont think there is one for this series?

I guess sometimes you can use official press materials or a program's website as a secondary source, if on-screen credits are ambiguous. But you might want to get a mod's confirmation on that.

If that's the case, then it should be written in that section of the rules.

EDIT: I might change my mind if I think about it some more later, but at the moment I do disagree with those rules. I think if there are no season regular onscreen credits at all, then cast that are credited onscreen for every episode of a season should be creditted as season regulars.

imo this quote from the rules: "Any actor not credited as a series regular—including but not limited to recurring guest stars, guest stars and co-stars—should be added as a Guest Star instead. These actors not credited as series regulars might appear in one, a few, half, most, or even every episode of a season." should only apply to series that have series regular onscreen credits.

@softpillow said:

The one that I can think of at the moment since I just watched it is Frayed: https://www.themoviedb.org/tv/93479-frayed/changes?filter_key=key&filter=season_regular (mod added regulars right?). To find other examples Id have to take some time to look into it later.

Yeah, odd. No idea where they get the information. For what it is worth, only Sarah Kendall is credited separately from the rest of the cast in each season, so I would list only her as a regular https://i.postimg.cc/nr6wY2zX/Screenshot-2025-03-13-at-19-35-58.png

Unless I'm not aware of what you mean by a clear separation (what that is), I dont think there is one for this series?

Like Sarah Kendall in the example above. Something obvious.

If that's the case, then it should be written in that section of the rules.

There are lots of things that should be written in the rules, but they aren't.

I do think this is somewhat common for tv show credits, but Id have to spend time looking for examples. So I think frankly the rules should be changed. imo the rules are written (probably?) with the assumption that a show is going to have season regular onscreen credits- many do. But maybe they were written without taking into account that there are many shows that dont have onscreen season regular credits, and so the line about "any actor creditted in all episodes should be added as guest stars if not credited onscreen as a regular" was written about shows that have onscreen credits...it was written to say "the actors in a show creditted as regulars should be added as regulars, but in comparison, the actors in that show that are not creddited as a regular, they are a guest star, even if they are credited in all episodes" (the important distinction here is that there already are actors creditted as regulars and the actors that are guest stars are the ones that arent). Am I making sense? lol

...but maybe I need to find more examples...Im not certain (so I could be wrong) but I think its somewhat common for shows to do this...? And to me, it makes much more sense, in these situations, to credit all actors creditted in all episodes of a season as a season regular. Rather than credit no one as a series regular.

If that's the case, then it should be written in that section of the rules.

There are lots of things that should be written in the rules, but they aren't.

I know. But they should. And...I think I've gotten things added to the rules before (long while ago I think?). So its not a completely fruitless endeavor....I think?

@shotfirer said:

@softpillow said:

The one that I can think of at the moment since I just watched it is Frayed: https://www.themoviedb.org/tv/93479-frayed/changes?filter_key=key&filter=season_regular (mod added regulars right?). To find other examples Id have to take some time to look into it later.

Yeah, odd. No idea where they get the information. For what it is worth, only Sarah Kendall is credited separately from the rest of the cast in each season, so I would list only her as a regular https://i.postimg.cc/nr6wY2zX/Screenshot-2025-03-13-at-19-35-58.png

Right but do you think it is the correct idea to only credit her as the series regular (not based on the rules, but based on what you think is actually correct/how season regulars should be creditted for thsi show)? imo, Sarah is credited separately and is singled out to show that she is the central, the most important character, the main character of the show. And so yes, it would make sense to credited her as a season regular. Or do you interpret it to mean that the show actually is explicitly crediting her as the only season regular for the show?

I guess this might be a tricky question to answer if you haven't seen the show/arent familiar with the show (unless you have/are familiar).

@shotfirer said:

Unless I'm not aware of what you mean by a clear separation (what that is), I dont think there is one for this series?

Like Sarah Kendall in the example above. Something obvious.

What about the show "This Life"? I believe it doesn't have onscreen season regular intro credits and also doesnt have a clear seperation in end credits to distinguish regulars vs guest stars https://www.themoviedb.org/tv/150-this-life/changes?filter_key=key&filter=season_regular . This series doesnt have a mod adding season regulars but it does have them adding character names for those season regulars... (although I supposed this was so long ago perhaps they werent mods then/rules were different back then)...

Regardless, would the correct decision truly be to have no season regulars and just add them as guest stars, even if they are credited in every episode? (I haven't actually checked if they are creditted in every episode, but as a rule, if they were, wouldnt it be a good idea to add them as regulars?) Especially since, just from watching the show, there clearly are actors that are recurring main characters of the show that the show centers around on...

EDITx2: I just did a quick check and yes, at least one of the actors for season 1 of that show is creditted in every episode in the end credits.

Unlike Frayed, This Life does not have any actor singled out in the credits in the way Sarah is singled out. Is there something else Im missing that's supposed to be, like you described as, "obvious" that Im not noticing about the credits?

I know that sometimes people refer to press releases that list "starring" actors when no on-screen credits are available. Yeah, the rules explicitly say to refer only to on-screen credits, but people tend to ignore the rules all the time for their own convenience or for other reasons. I see mods breaking or bending the rules all the time, but that doesn't mean that everyone should start doing the same. I guess for some old and quite obscure shows, no one really cares who and how is being added. As long as those people really appeared in the show and portrayed those characters. I believe there are some conventions between mods on how to deal with ambiguous situations like that, so it might be some agreement beyond the contribution rules. "Best practice" or something like that.

But using the number of appearances as the only criteria is wrong. Appearing in all episodes doesn't make the actor part of a regular cast. The opposite is also true; the fact that the actor didn't appear in all episodes doesn't mean that he can't be a part of the regular cast. The distinction between main/guest and co-stars is a matter of contract details and crediting arrangements and may or may not coincide with the importance of the character.

@shotfirer said:

I know that sometimes people refer to press releases that list "starring" actors when no on-screen credits are available. Yeah, the rules explicitly say to refer only to on-screen credits, but people tend to ignore the rules all the time for their own convenience or for other reasons. I see mods breaking or bending the rules all the time, but that doesn't mean that everyone should start doing the same. I guess for some old and quite obscure shows, no one really cares who and how is being added. As long as those people really appeared in the show and portrayed those characters. I believe there are some conventions between mods on how to deal with ambiguous situations like that, so it might be some agreement beyond the contribution rules. "Best practice" or something like that.

Yes, but what do you think the rules should be? It sounds to me like you agree with me that for a show like "This Life". It should be done the way I suggest. I'm suggesting that the rules haven't been thought out very well and should be changed. Not that people should break the rules just because some mods break them sometimes.

If the answer is to find and use press releases, where would I find those? Especially for a show like "This Life"?

Wait, what do you mean by "ambiguous situations"? Are you saying the situation with "This Life" is an ambiguous one? Or are you talking about when there are no on-screen credits available for people to access and view? If there are some kind of idea on how to deal with onscreen credits that are ambiguous, it would be nice to hear what those conventions are. Preferrably in the rules.

But using the number of appearances as the only criteria is wrong. Appearing in all episodes doesn't make the actor part of a regular cast. The opposite is also true; the fact that the actor didn't appear in all episodes doesn't mean that he can't be a part of the regular cast. The distinction between main/guest and co-stars is a matter of contract details and crediting arrangements and may or may not coincide with the importance of the character.

Well, the rules don't provide any criteria for these shows And to be clear its not "appearances" its credits. Which is different. Its pretty logical based off of the rules since there are no specific rules for these shows, to just go with credit the actors creditted in every episode as the regulars.

@softpillow said: Yes, but what do you think the rules should be? It sounds to me like you agree with me that for a show like "This Life". It should be done the way I suggest. I'm suggesting that the rules haven't been thought out very well and should be changed. Not that people should break the rules just because some mods break them sometimes.

Well, in my understanding, TMDB doesn't really care about the proper crediting of season regulars. There's no way to track the per-episode appearances, and the rules suggest that the actors should not be credited as regulars based on the number of their appearances, even if they are, in fact, regular cast members.

I would probably add a list of acceptable alternative sources of information to cover the situations when on-screen credits are not available or don't make a distinction between main and guest stars. Something like "It is allowed to use starring information from the official press release or website if on-screen credits do not make a distinction".

If the answer is to find and use press releases, where would I find those? Especially for a show like "This Life"?

For BBC show you can try BBC Genome. But for old shows, it might be impossible, or very hard to find something. I would say, if you're familiar with the show, it's usually quite easy to tell who are season regulars and who are not. Edit as you see fit, and if someone notices and disagrees, I'm sure you will be notified. But if another user starts an edit war with you, it's better to have some official source to refer to, if you decide to file a report.

Wait, what do you mean by "ambiguous situations"?

By ambiguous, I mean "not covered clearly by the rules."