@LittleCrit said:

Apparently, the rhyme that Neegan says was racist......over 100 years ago. But apparently it still is, despite a major word change...

http://www.msn.com/en-gb/lifestyle/style/primark-pulls-racist-the-walking-dead-t-shirt-from-stores/ar-AAnaXiW

I didn't know until many years later that any racist language was involved with this silly little rhyme. There wasn't the way we all learned it. I mean, even as a kid I wondered why a tiger would holler instead of ripping your head off but that's about as deeply as I thought about it. Grabbing hold of a big cat, generally not a good idea. The old Jack and Jill nursery rhyme is about two kids who fall off the side of a mountain to their deaths - but you don't really think about that either. Do white supremacist groups actually use Eenie-meenie-miney-moe to terrorize people these days? First I've heard.

@chrisjdel said:

@LittleCrit said:

Apparently, the rhyme that Neegan says was racist......over 100 years ago. But apparently it still is, despite a major word change...

http://www.msn.com/en-gb/lifestyle/style/primark-pulls-racist-the-walking-dead-t-shirt-from-stores/ar-AAnaXiW

I didn't know until many years later that any racist language was involved with this silly little rhyme. There wasn't the way we all learned it. I mean, even as a kid I wondered why a tiger would holler instead of ripping your head off but that's about as deeply as I thought about it. Grabbing hold of a big cat, generally not a good idea. The old Jack and Jill nursery rhyme is about two kids who fall off the side of a mountain to their deaths - but you don't really think about that either. Do white supremacist groups actually use Eenie-meenie-miney-moe to terrorize people these days? First I've heard.

I remember learning it using 'tiger' as well. This preacher was really reaching to find fault with the rhyme. What's next? Is he gonna sue TWD for using the rhyme in the show? Has he even seen the show?!?

I didn't know until many years later that any racist language was involved with this silly little rhyme. There wasn't the way we all learned it. I mean, even as a kid I wondered why a tiger would holler instead of ripping your head off but that's about as deeply as I thought about it. Grabbing hold of a big cat, generally not a good idea. The old Jack and Jill nursery rhyme is about two kids who fall off the side of a mountain to their deaths - but you don't really think about that either.

I agree. Isn't there something about the "Ring Around the Rosie" rhyme also?

@Pandora78 said:

I didn't know until many years later that any racist language was involved with this silly little rhyme. There wasn't the way we all learned it. I mean, even as a kid I wondered why a tiger would holler instead of ripping your head off but that's about as deeply as I thought about it. Grabbing hold of a big cat, generally not a good idea. The old Jack and Jill nursery rhyme is about two kids who fall off the side of a mountain to their deaths - but you don't really think about that either.

I agree. Isn't there something about the "Ring Around the Rosie" rhyme also?

I think "Ring Around the Rosie" was about the plague. That's what the "ashes, ashes" refers to, if I remember correctly.

I think "Ring Around the Rosie" was about the plague. That's what the "ashes, ashes" refers to, if I remember correctly.

Yep that was it, The Black Death that hit Europe.

Yep, it's true. It was always "tiger" when I was in elementary school, but my nanny who grew up in England informed me that when she was a kid it was the "N" word. She was pleased to discover that it had switched to tiger in the U.S.. I didn't know what the "N" word was at the time, but she told me I'd figure it out one day. Lol.

@Pandora78 said:

I didn't know until many years later that any racist language was involved with this silly little rhyme. There wasn't the way we all learned it. I mean, even as a kid I wondered why a tiger would holler instead of ripping your head off but that's about as deeply as I thought about it. Grabbing hold of a big cat, generally not a good idea. The old Jack and Jill nursery rhyme is about two kids who fall off the side of a mountain to their deaths - but you don't really think about that either.

I agree. Isn't there something about the "Ring Around the Rosie" rhyme also?

In all fairness, people over 60 actually remember the days of segregation. A lot changed in a short time and for those of us born afterward a lot of things they react strongly to have no negative associations. Sometimes I wish they'd keep that in mind. I'm willing to bet he doesn't watch the show. If he saw that scene, he'd know there were no racial connotations and it's become an iconic moment for the character of Negan. I've seen those T-shirts. They show Negan brandishing Lucille with the words "Eenie-meenie-miney-moe" in big red letters. That's why I wondered about white supremacist groups using that rhyme. If his sole reason for objecting is what it used to be many years ago, that's being a little over-sensitive.

Actually Ring Around the Rosie comes to us from the Middle Ages, during the black plague. Whole villages were wiped out except for a handful. In the big cities the dead were collected every day and burned in huge funeral pyres. That's where the ashes, ashes comes from, and we all fall down is pretty self-explanatory. A lot of nursery rhymes are rather gruesome. Like this one:

Peter, Peter, pumpkin-eater, Had a wife, couldn’t keep her; Put her in a pumpkin shell, And there he kept her very well.

A guy's wife is sleeping around, so he kills her and keeps her body somewhere a la Norman Bates. Of course, if you don't think too much about it that's just a goofy rhyme for kids. How about Rock a Bye Baby? A sweet little song, but pay attention to the words! It seems like as time goes on, at least certain people are taking random stuff more and more seriously. Nothing is a minor detail to them. It's all a big deal. Sometimes words are just words. And if you're one of those American kids who spent years saying "One nation, invisible ..." long after you were old enough to realize that made no sense, you see what I mean. When you learn things by rote, that are just part of the culture, you aren't being brainwashed to become a racist or a wife killing psychopath. It's just words and rhymes and silly songs. Ooooooh Yankee Doodle went to town, riding on a pony, stuck a feather in his hat and called it macaroni ...

@chrisjdel said:

@Pandora78 said:

I didn't know until many years later that any racist language was involved with this silly little rhyme. There wasn't the way we all learned it. I mean, even as a kid I wondered why a tiger would holler instead of ripping your head off but that's about as deeply as I thought about it. Grabbing hold of a big cat, generally not a good idea. The old Jack and Jill nursery rhyme is about two kids who fall off the side of a mountain to their deaths - but you don't really think about that either.

I agree. Isn't there something about the "Ring Around the Rosie" rhyme also?

In all fairness, people over 60 actually remember the days of segregation. A lot changed in a short time and for those of us born afterward a lot of things they react strongly to have no negative associations. Sometimes I wish they'd keep that in mind. I'm willing to bet he doesn't watch the show. If he saw that scene, he'd know there were no racial connotations and it's become an iconic moment for the character of Negan. I've seen those T-shirts. They show Negan brandishing Lucille with the words "Eenie-meenie-miney-moe" in big red letters. That's why I wondered about white supremacist groups using that rhyme. If his sole reason for objecting is what it used to be many years ago, that's being a little over-sensitive.

Actually Ring Around the Rosie comes to us from the Middle Ages, during the black plague. Whole villages were wiped out except for a handful. In the big cities the dead were collected every day and burned in huge funeral pyres. That's where the ashes, ashes comes from, and we all fall down is pretty self-explanatory. A lot of nursery rhymes are pretty gruesome. Like this one:

Peter, Peter, pumpkin-eater, Had a wife, couldn’t keep her; Put her in a pumpkin shell, And there he kept her very well.

A guy's wife is sleeping around, so he kills her and keeps her body somewhere a la Norman Bates. Of course, if you don't think too much about it that's just a goofy rhyme for kids. How about Rock a Bye Baby? A sweet little song, but pay attention to the words! It seems like as time goes on, at least certain people are taking random stuff more and more seriously. Nothing is a minor detail to them. It's all a big deal. Sometimes words are just words. And if you're one of those American kids who spent years saying "One nation, invisible ..." long after you were old enough to realize that made no sense, you see what I mean. When you learn things by rote, that are just part of the culture, you aren't being brainwashed to become a racist or a wife killing psychopath. It's just words and rhymes and silly songs. Ooooooh Yankee Doodle went to town, riding on a pony, stuck a feather in his hat and called it macaroni ...

Exactly. I feel like so many people wake up every morning looking for things to complain about.

@chrisjdel , thank you! I couldn't remember exactly how "Ring Around the Posie" came about!

My mother (b. 1942) has told me stories about segregation. She had once traveled from Boston, MA, to the South. The train she was traveling on stopped at the Mason-Dixon Line so that African Americans could exit that train to board another just for them. I remember being horrified that humans could treat each other like that.

@LittleCrit said:

@chrisjdel , thank you! I couldn't remember exactly how "Ring Around the Posie" came about!

My mother (b. 1942) has told me stories about segregation. She had once traveled from Boston, MA, to the South. The train she was traveling on stopped at the Mason-Dixon Line so that African Americans could exit that train to board another just for them. I remember being horrified that humans could treat each other like that.

Intellectually, you know segregation was recent (historically speaking). Many people who are still alive have personal memories of it. But for a gen-Xer or a millennial it's hard to square with your own life experience. Seems like it was a thousand years ago, and the fact that most film footage from the time is in black and white only reinforces that sense of separation. Which is unfortunate in a lot of ways. We're nowhere near that point now, but looking at current events in this country you can't tell me we could never go down that road again. It's important that the lessons of the past not be forgotten. Especially in a climate like this.

@chrisjdel said:

@LittleCrit said:

@chrisjdel , thank you! I couldn't remember exactly how "Ring Around the Posie" came about!

My mother (b. 1942) has told me stories about segregation. She had once traveled from Boston, MA, to the South. The train she was traveling on stopped at the Mason-Dixon Line so that African Americans could exit that train to board another just for them. I remember being horrified that humans could treat each other like that.

Intellectually, you know segregation was recent (historically speaking). Many people who are still alive have personal memories of it. But for a gen-Xer or a millennial it's hard to square with your own life experience. Seems like it was a thousand years ago, and the fact that most film footage from the time is in black and white only reinforces that sense of separation. Which is unfortunate in a lot of ways. We're nowhere near that point now, but looking at current events in this country you can't tell me we could never go down that road again. It's important that the lessons of the past not be forgotten. Especially in a climate like this.

I wholeheartedly agree. I believe the quote goes something like: those that forget history are bound to repeat it (not 100 percent sure that's the exact quote).

@LittleCrit

"Those who do not know History are destined to repeat it"

@Pandora78 said:

@LittleCrit

"Those who do not know History are destined to repeat it"

I knew I didn't quote it correctly. Lol

@LittleCrit said: I wholeheartedly agree. I believe the quote goes something like: those that forget history are bound to repeat it (not 100 percent sure that's the exact quote).

The original quote was:

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

• George Santayana

George Santayana was a writer and social critic of the late 19th and early 20th century. I've never heard of him before, but see - you learn something new every day. And Col Needham says discussion boards don't offer users a positive experience!

What's scary is I'm not sure that history is being taught the way it was to gen-y and before. With tensions running high throughout the world, we need to teach the younger generations how it was. And, while this preacher stumbled upon the old rhyme, it's important to know why it was changed. Because it's been changed, I personally don't feel it should be an issue. However, should my kids ever question something like this, I would like to think I could turn it into a sort of impromptu history lesson.