It looked like Kevin made peace with Jack in the hospital. Kevin did make an ignorant remark about Kate sitting in front of their old house and overeating. He’s just all about #1. He was going to forge that prescription without a care -until he realized his necklace was gone and made that tearful plea on her lawn. I think he will use Kate’s miscarriage as another excuse to pop more pills. I bet Beth catches him/notices he’s got a problem. That gal is in tune.

@ScorpionQ2 said:

True. I think his great love for Kate and his nieces ( he is also great with the foster girl ) are the only reasons I don't totally despise him.

Touche'.

Interesting how he is really great with the kids, but doesn't believe he would be great with his own. He's the odd one out, too. Kate was close to Jack, Randall was close to Rebecca...Kevin seems like the red-headed step child, LOL

@autumnsquirrel said:

Interesting how he is really great with the kids, but doesn't believe he would be great with his own. He's the odd one out, too. Kate was close to Jack, Randall was close to Rebecca...Kevin seems like the red-headed step child, LOL

Good point. You are so right about him being the odd one out.

@Nubyan said:

@autumnsquirrel said:

Interesting how he is really great with the kids, but doesn't believe he would be great with his own. He's the odd one out, too. Kate was close to Jack, Randall was close to Rebecca...Kevin seems like the red-headed step child, LOL

Good point. You are so right about him being the odd one out.

Do you recall a flashback in season one, the whole family at the pool...Was Kevin drowning, or faking for attention, as he saw Jack and Rebecca doting on the other 2. I can't recall exactly if it was done for attention-or if he was really having trouble in that pool and Jack and Rebecca didn't notice right away.

@autumnsquirrel said:

He's the odd one out, too. Kate was close to Jack, Randall was close to Rebecca... Kevin seems like the red-headed step child, LOL

@autumnsquirrel said:

Do you recall a flashback in season one, the whole family at the pool...Was Kevin drowning, or faking for attention, as he saw Jack and Rebecca doting on the other 2. I can't recall exactly if it was done for attention-or if he was really having trouble in that pool and Jack and Rebecca didn't notice right away.

I remember that. I thought he was really having trouble.

@clunybrown2017 said:

I have to say I was really disappointed when he reached out to Randall by showing up on his doorstep only to have the spotlight be on Kate and her miscarriage. For some reason, I'm down on Kate and Toby at this point (mostly Toby). Should be interesting to see how Kevin reveals why he is there .

I bet the season will end with Kevin going off to an extended rehab where, hopefully, he will be able to delve into his past and finally come to grips with his dad's death and other issues.

I agree with you about the story going back to Kate. It would have been nice to see that dynamic between him and Randall and how they both handle it. He won't tell Randall the real reason why he's there. He's going to play it off and act like it's about Kate.

What are you down on Kate and Toby about?

What is interesting is how Kevin treated his dad regarding his drinking. He threw it in his face and made it seem like Jack was a loser. Which he wasn't. He faced his problem openly and head on. I so respect that. Meanwhile, Kevin is hiding his problem from everyone.

@Nubyan said:

@clunybrown2017 said:

I have to say I was really disappointed when he reached out to Randall by showing up on his doorstep only to have the spotlight be on Kate and her miscarriage. For some reason, I'm down on Kate and Toby at this point (mostly Toby). Should be interesting to see how Kevin reveals why he is there .

I bet the season will end with Kevin going off to an extended rehab where, hopefully, he will be able to delve into his past and finally come to grips with his dad's death and other issues.

I agree with you about the story going back to Kate. It would have been nice to see that dynamic between him and Randall and how they both handle it. He won't tell Randall the real reason why he's there. He's going to play it off and act like it's about Kate.

What are you down on Kate and Toby about?

What is interesting is how Kevin treated his dad regarding his drinking. He threw it in his face and made it seem like Jack was a loser. Which he wasn't. He faced his problem openly and head on. I so respect that. Meanwhile, Kevin is hiding his problem from everyone.

What you said about Kevin's reaction to his dad's drinking was spot on. Kevin was a kid, immature for his age, and probably embarrassed by the drinking. No excuse though. How he treated his dad, especially so soon before his death, has got to be one of the issues he carries as an adult. In many ways, he is still immature, impulsive, stunted, but grappling to improve himself. I so wish he could have had that moment with Randall at the front door. Hey, I know about not growing up. I actually wasn't forced to grow up until I was 40 (close to Kevin's age). I can relate.

Okay, about Toby and Kate. I like Kate. It's Toby who irritates me. Kate deserves better. When I see Toby, I see a guy who makes light of every situation, has to be the jokester, the hip guy. It looks like he listens to Kate but he does not HEAR her, he doesn't know her. I remember him trying to sabotage her diet and didn't he go behind her back and share info with her mother (can't remember, maybe i'm making that up). Anyway, he irritates the bejeebers out of me :) Oh, and did I throw in the word NEEDY that also applies to him.

@clunybrown2017 said:

What you said about Kevin's reaction to his dad's drinking was spot on. Kevin was a kid, immature for his age, and probably embarrassed by the drinking. No excuse though. How he treated his dad, especially so soon before his death, has got to be one of the issues he carries as an adult. In many ways, he is still immature, impulsive, stunted, but grappling to improve himself. I so wish he could have had that moment with Randall at the front door. Hey, I know about not growing up. I actually wasn't forced to grow up until I was 40 (close to Kevin's age). I can relate.

Okay, about Toby and Kate. I like Kate. It's Toby who irritates me. Kate deserves better. When I see Toby, I see a guy who makes light of every situation, has to be the jokester, the hip guy. It looks like he listens to Kate but he does not HEAR her, he doesn't know her. I remember him trying to sabotage her diet and didn't he go behind her back and share info with her mother (can't remember, maybe i'm making that up). Anyway, he irritates the bejeebers out of me :) Oh, and did I throw in the word NEEDY that also applies to him.

Okay, this is where we disagree.

Kevin had zero reason to be embarrassed about Jack's drinking. There wasn't anyone outside the immediate family that knew about it. I doubt that his buddy Miguel knew. I will agree with you that Kevin was young and immature.

I can't believe you don't like Toby and think Kate deserves better. That man worships her.

Kate was sabtotaging herself for not believing in herself and always having her self doubts. She was close to allowing that jerk who's parents ran that program talk her into sleeping with him due to her self doubt.

He didn't go behind her back with her mother. He slipped and accidentally told the mother about her singing gig.

I don't see him as trying to be hip. Yes, he is a jokester at times. That's him attempting to lighten the mood because Kate was always so damn serious and feeling sorry for herself. She needed that from him...in my opinion.

Toby is the best damn thing that has happened to Kate.

I have to say though, about Kevin. He can be a jerk and self centered. But he's not all bad. Remember when Randall was freaking out and had that breakdown about his job and someone else trying to steal his thunder? Kevin was there to comfort him. He held Randall in his arms while they were both crouched down on the floor.

Kevin has a lot of self doubt. William addressed that with him when he was still alive.

By the way...congratulations on growing up. 🥂 👍👊👏

@Nubyan said:

Kevin had zero reason to be embarrassed about Jack's drinking.

I think the correct word could maybe be disappointed? You know the way when one finds something out/realizes something about their parent/parents that makes them human and less idolized ?

That look on Kevin's face when he first saw Jack struggling and reciting the prayer - to me looked at first to be disdain , then sadness.

Someone told me the first time he ever saw his dad cry was when his dad was very ill, and seeing that scared him , and he for just a passing moment lost respect for his dad. I think it was disappointment and then feeling embarrassed for even feeling that way towards his dad- maybe that is how Kevin felt at that moment too? Maybe this is what clunybrown means?

@ScorpionQ2 said:

I think the correct word could maybe be disappointed? You know the way when one finds something out/realizes something about their parent/parents that makes them human and less idolized ?

That look on Kevin's face when he first saw Jack struggling and reciting the prayer - to me looked at first to be disdain , then sadness.

Someone told me the first time he ever saw his dad cry was when his dad was very ill, and seeing that scared him , and he for just a passing moment lost respect for his dad. I think it was disappointment and then feeling embarrassed for even feeling that way towards his dad- maybe that is how Kevin felt at that moment too? Maybe this is what clunybrown means?

I can accept disappointment.

I can't imagine losing respect for a parent just because they cried. Wow...that blows my mind!

If anything...I would respect them more for showing their feelings and not being afraid to do so.

Is that a guy thing? Because society look at men that cry as weak instead of being human?

You all ought not be so hard on yourselves when it comes to that emotion.

@Nubyan said:

I can accept disappointment. I can't imagine losing respect for a parent just because they cried. Wow...that blows my mind!

I totally agree. Blew my mind too when he told me that, even though he said the feeling was fleeting .

If anything...I would respect them more for showing their feelings and not being afraid to do so. Is that a guy thing? Because society look at men that cry as weak instead of being human?

That is exactly what I thought "a guy thing"

You all ought not be so hard on yourselves when it comes to that emotion.