I was referring to East Germany when it was still East Germany and which, like Russia/Soviet Union, was a great big environmental disaster but hidden from knowledge until they were opened up. To the extent it's been cleaned up since then, is a testament to western capitalism, free markets, and free people generally. Nothing to do with how they were for decades previously. Which you seem to oppose in THIS country which has never been as bad as East Germany and the Soviet Union were - and like Cuba and Venezuela still are - when running under the types of government that Barack Obama, Bernie Sanders, and Hillary Clinton admire.

Places like Venezuela and Cuba also crow about "free health care" but - especially if you're not a high government official - what's "free" is not what anyone would want. It doesn't take long to find out online that regular people in Cuba who want their "free health care" have to bring their own sheets, food, light bulbs, toilet paper... maybe even their own medicine. And even with that, the "health care" they get is still crap. They also boast about extremely high literacy rates, but that's because they have to make sure you can read everything the Castros ever wrote or said. And nothing else. In China it was Mao's Little Red Book etc.

I was talking about China not about Russia ,Cuba or Venezuela. Russia is still an environmental mess just as it was under the Soviet Union so capitalism hasn't improved (and in some cases even worsened)it at all .And I never said I was against capitalism,the free market or free people.And since when was environmental protection against the free market ? Sure it raises production costs by a fraction but it doesn't exclude other producers of competing in the market.I was merely suggesting that you can have a "smart free market" by being ahead of your competitors on the fields of environmental protection(or do you want to pollute everything and leave the mess for the generations after us with costs being much higher?,plus this field has become a booming industry in itself providing a for lot of new jobs ),alternative energy resources(which only becomes cheaper and cheaper certainly with oil and gas resources becoming rarer and rarer),recycling (which would make the costs of certain raw materials cheaper).

And I only pointed out the free health care and free education to illustrate that the US is one of the few developed countries where general healthcare for everyone seems to be an issue.About 70% of the world has no problems with paying a couple of percentages of extra tax to have free healthcare in some form for everybody.Sure the quality varies but against the example of Cuba I can place the free healthcare systems of the Scandinavian countries which are very good and sometimes better(and often cheaper) than the US.

The larger point is that capitalism and the free market are what have led to environmental technologies that would never even be imagined in any kind of command economy such as Russia/Soviet Union, East Germany, Cuba, Venezuela and even today's China. To the (still pretty limited) extent that China might be using (actually stealing) more environmentally-friendly technologies invented in the US, it should be remembered where those technologies originated, and how, and why. Which means that China is not really the "shining city on the hill." That is still the US.

Any kind of "national healthcare" even aside from other issues such as Scandinavian countries being very small and homogenous compared to the US, ends up with limitations, restrictions, waiting lists, denial of care if you're not considered to be sufficiently worthy, etc. When given the choice, rather than having it dictated to them by their supposed "betters," people don't opt for that kind of thing of their own free will.

"Free healthcare" countries also end up depending on others especially the US to subsidize their national defense and do new medical research FOR them, among other things, because their "free healthcare" costs so much they can't afford to take care of themselves in other areas.

@Nubyan I know Nubyan I have come across him a couple of times on the TOS,TNG and ENT boards where he seems to be confusing Star Trek with a factual science program where everything has to be explained into the tinniest detail and everything has to make sense,where suspension of disbelieve is not his strongest point and has trouble with understanding the "fiction"part in science fiction,you know the type.

On the subject of STD I can honestly say I've only seen parts of it ,and though it looks amazing I fail to connect this with the rest of the Trek lore since it looks so different(and I know the reasons why which is all about which company owns the rights of the tv series and which company owns the rights of the movies) this next clip will explain a lot;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQcLLfzzKWA

@Nexus71

You're wasting your time: https://www.autisminspiration.com/public/415.cfm

I never claimed that environmental protection wasn't a product of the free market I was talking about utilizing the full potential of it in a profitable and economical competitive fashion.Whether the technology was discovered by the US or not was not the subject utilizing and developing it for mass production is and clearly China has the lead in that field.The US still might be "the shining city on the hill" but without the US reforming it's industry it will be surpassed by China within a decade.

You can claim everything about US health care you want,but look at the facts below you'll find the rankings of the Best healthcare systems in the world (according the WHO),the US isn't even in the top 25 and of those 25 the vast majority have free general healthcare for everybody.As a matter of fact the US healthcare is only slightly better than that of Cuba.And no the majority of people around the world when given a free choice would gladly pay some extra tax for free healthcare.

http://thepatientfactor.com/canadian-health-care-information/world-health-organizations-ranking-of-the-worlds-health-systems/

@Nexus71 said:

@Nubyan I know Nubyan I have come across him a couple of times on the TOS,TNG and ENT boards where he seems to be confusing Star Trek with a factual science program where everything has to be explained into the tinniest detail and everything has to make sense,where suspension of disbelieve is not his strongest point and has trouble with understanding the "fiction"part in science fiction,you know the type.

On the subject of STD I can honestly say I've only seen parts of it ,and though it looks amazing I fail to connect this with the rest of the Trek lore since it looks so different(and I know the reasons why which is all about which company owns the rights of the tv series and which company owns the rights of the movies) this next clip will explain a lot;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQcLLfzzKWA

Thank you for sharing that clip.

I am left with thinking that things shouldn't be that complicated or confusing.

It's Star Trek! I just want to be entertained.

So far, the only thing keeping me anchored to the show... is this board. But not for too much longer. 😞

I'm totally confused, post about Star Trek on 'The Movie Database' . So far we've had Trump and Obama comments, stock exchange, race rows and some pretty creative insults.... Tardball being my favourite. Chill out peeps! :-)

To be honest this series board seems the only Trek board steeped in politics,economy and race rows the other boards mostly deal with topics related to that particular Star Trek series. I think the whole problem stems from the fact that issues are forced into the Trek universe which weren't an issue in the Trek universe in the first place . We already had a black main character in DS9 we already had a female captain in VOY so this whole pandering to these demographics seem to be pointless and like deliberately trying to cause a row for publicity reasons.Plus the whole story lines and characterisations seem so far removed from Trek universe that the show comes across like a totally different SF show with a Star Trek logo slapped onto it.And I am not impressed by the acting of the main character who despite her Vulcan background seems to act contrary to that Vulcan heritage.

@Beepositive said:

@Nexus71

You're wasting your time: https://www.autisminspiration.com/public/415.cfm

"Many children with Asperger Syndrome will also argue when told that they are wrong even about seemingly insignificant things. Children with Asperger Syndrome seem to have a drive to be perfect and it is a blow to their self-esteem when they discover that they are not. The easiest way for them to avoid this blow is refuse to believe that they are wrong. Instead, they will argue endlessly to prove that they are right in spite of all evidence to the contrary. For example, my daughter loves to argue with her older brothers over information, even if after I have explained to her that she is incorrect. If her brothers or I attempt to show her the correct information in a book or on-line she will become more agitated and start to scream, all the while still insisting that she is right."

LMAO that describes knixon perfectly. Thank you for confirming my diagnosis.

Except I'm not the one claiming that 2+2=5. You have the roles reversed. I'm the one calmly and patiently showing you correct information, and you're covering your ears and shouting "NYAH NYAH NYAH CAN'T HEAR YOU! YOU MUST BE AUSTISTIC BECAUSE I MUST BE RIGHT!! (How ironic is that???) 2+2=5!"

@styXXX said:

@Beepositive said:

@Nexus71

You're wasting your time: https://www.autisminspiration.com/public/415.cfm

"Many children with Asperger Syndrome will also argue when told that they are wrong even about seemingly insignificant things. Children with Asperger Syndrome seem to have a drive to be perfect and it is a blow to their self-esteem when they discover that they are not. The easiest way for them to avoid this blow is refuse to believe that they are wrong. Instead, they will argue endlessly to prove that they are right in spite of all evidence to the contrary. For example, my daughter loves to argue with her older brothers over information, even if after I have explained to her that she is incorrect. If her brothers or I attempt to show her the correct information in a book or on-line she will become more agitated and start to scream, all the while still insisting that she is right."

LMAO that describes knixon perfectly. Thank you for confirming my diagnosis.

lol, That's perfect.

I'm really trying not to get sucked back into the off topic debate. But that was me speaking to Nexus71 and not Beepositive. The quotes seem a little mixed up. Or, perhaps others came to the same conclusion. My bad if that was the case.

In any case, the article was spot on. Too bad I didn't know then what I know now.😠

Just remember who has the evidence here. That's what you all seem to ignore. (By the way, "that's just my opinion" or "it's insignificant anyway" are not evidence.) I grew up with people who, when shown they were wrong about something, would say "Well I was just being devil's advocate." So I'm used to the sliminess and posturing and excuses and etc. These days people don't even take enough responsibility to go with something like "devil's advocate." They just start claiming that the person who proved them wrong must be "on the spectrum" etc which is the new fad and buzzword. How sad for you.

@styXXX said:

@Beepositive said:

@Nexus71

You're wasting your time: https://www.autisminspiration.com/public/415.cfm

"Many children with Asperger Syndrome will also argue when told that they are wrong even about seemingly insignificant things. Children with Asperger Syndrome seem to have a drive to be perfect and it is a blow to their self-esteem when they discover that they are not. The easiest way for them to avoid this blow is refuse to believe that they are wrong. Instead, they will argue endlessly to prove that they are right in spite of all evidence to the contrary. For example, my daughter loves to argue with her older brothers over information, even if after I have explained to her that she is incorrect. If her brothers or I attempt to show her the correct information in a book or on-line she will become more agitated and start to scream, all the while still insisting that she is right."

LMAO that describes knixon perfectly. Thank you for confirming my diagnosis.

Spot on!

Poor little guy is still melting down. So much irony in his posts. Too funny.