Good for you but don't be cross with us for disagreeing with you.

@LansingFan said:

I don't need Nexus or anyone to straighten me out about anything. I like Discovery and Picard. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

I didn't say you can't like it (although I'm sorry about that), the point is that it's not really Star Trek. You liking it or not, has nothing to do with that.

Some people watch Star Trek and completely MISS the most important themes and ideals which have made of ALL the different iterations of the series a success. These people are INSTEAD fixated in seeing certain STEREOTYPES. When these stereotypes change, they are LOST. They don't understand that ST was never about identity but rather about IDEAS.

This is why The Orville is so attractive to them. The stereotypes are EXACTLY how they like them. The FACT that NONE of the lofty ST ideal and themes are present is irrelevant.....to them....so long as the CAST looks right!

@Thespear said:

Some people watch Star Trek and completely MISS the most important themes and ideals which have made of ALL the different iterations of the series a success. These people are INSTEAD fixated in seeing certain STEREOTYPES. When these stereotypes change, they are LOST. They don't understand that ST was never about identity but rather about IDEAS.

This is why The Orville is so attractive to them. The stereotypes are EXACTLY how they like them. The FACT that NONE of the lofty ST ideal and themes are present is irrelevant.....to them....so long as the CAST looks right!

And what ST ideals are in this new Kurtzman era stuff?

The first season established SF's PRIMARY notion that 'the end does not justify the means' MB rejected the notion that deliberate Klingon genocide was an acceptable SF goal; that SF is an amalgamation of different species from different worlds with different philosophies of existence and that with some accommodations they can all work as one; that war does not have to be an inevitable end to conflict. The mirror Universe was a huge foil to what Roddenberry envisioned for mankind!

The second season showed many examples of SELFLESSNESS and SACRIFICE as a hallmark of SF with the sacrifices of Captain Pike; the female admiral; the female DSC bridge officer who was part AI; and the sacrifice of the entire DSC crew who essentially left their loved ones and their lives for an uncertain future... to save the galaxy. In the second season, we also saw this disparate sometimes discordant crew resolve their individual personal differences and begin to work as one cohesive group, helping each other. Plus we see a triumphant Federation cobble together a number of different species to fight a menace to their galaxy!

PIC is about to examine the nature of LIFE itself and how that future society will handle the issue of the 'individual rights' of beings that were CREATED instead of being 'born'. Currently, the Federation's response is to deactivate ALL synths and ban ALL synth research and creation. Some synths commit a horrific attack on Mars and ALL synths forever have to pay. Sound like another ban you know?

All of these ideals you might have recognized as constant themes of ALL of ST from its inception, if you had been so disposed. If you were so inclined, you might also have recognized them as pressing concerns even in today's geopolitics. But that is certainly not going to happen if ALL you are concerned with is seeing ONLY ONE stereotypical version of humanity. ONLY ONE acceptable version of human sexuality; ( Take a look at how homosexuality is ridiculed in The Orville)

Since that first interracial kiss, ST has always pushed our boundaries of comfort. In Kurtzman's Trek we see an even wider range of sexuality; after countless battles and skirmishes we FINALLY see the 'wounded warrior' of the future for the first time; we see humans beings act and react as HUMANS and we see a range of aliens FRIENDS and FOES with realism.

@Thespear said:

The first season established SF's PRIMARY notion that 'the end does not justify the means' MB rejected the notion that deliberate Klingon genocide was an acceptable SF goal; that SF is an amalgamation of different species from different worlds with different philosophies of existence and that with some accommodations they can all work as one; that war does not have to be an inevitable end to conflict. The mirror Universe was a huge foil to what Roddenberry envisioned for mankind!

The second season showed many examples of SELFLESSNESS and SACRIFICE as a hallmark of SF with the sacrifices of Captain Pike; the female admiral; the female DSC bridge officer who was part AI; and the sacrifice of the entire DSC crew who essentially left their loved ones and their lives for an uncertain future... to save the galaxy. In the second season, we also saw this disparate sometimes discordant crew resolve their individual personal differences and begin to work as one cohesive group, helping each other. Plus we see a triumphant Federation cobble together a number of different species to fight a menace to their galaxy!

PIC is about to examine the nature of LIFE itself and how that future society will handle the issue of the 'individual rights' of beings that were CREATED instead of being 'born'. Currently, the Federation's response is to deactivate ALL synths and ban ALL synth research and creation. Some synths commit a horrific attack on Mars and ALL synths forever have to pay. Sound like another ban you know?

All of these ideals you might have recognized as constant themes of ALL of ST from its inception, if you had been so disposed. If you were so inclined, you might also have recognized them as pressing concerns even in today's geopolitics. But that is certainly not going to happen if ALL you are concerned with is seeing ONLY ONE stereotypical version of humanity. ONLY ONE acceptable version of human sexuality; ( Take a look at how homosexuality is ridiculed in The Orville)

Since that first interracial kiss, ST has always pushed our boundaries of comfort. In Kurtzman's Trek we see an even wider range of sexuality; after countless battles and skirmishes we FINALLY see the 'wounded warrior' of the future for the first time; we see humans beings act and react as HUMANS and we see a range of aliens FRIENDS and FOES with realism.

So explain to me why is starfleet now racist?

The Kurtzman Trek ideals;Star Trek is a dystopia,cannibalism,Section 31 are space Nazis,misandry,agism,racial stereotypes, hidden incest,drug addiction,isolationism, decapitation,soap opera dialogues xenophobia a hatred towards science and technology.

@Nexus71 said:

The Kurtzman Trek ideals;Star Trek is a dystopia,cannibalism,Section 31 are space Nazis,misandry,agism,racial stereotypes, hidden incest,drug addiction,isolationism, decapitation,soap opera dialogues xenophobia a hatred towards science and technology.

My God dude you nailed it. I was going to wait until the season was over to start watching but I couldn't help myself, the show is total shit. Granted it's not STD bad but it's pretty close.

The people making this do not understand what Star Trek is or what made it great, it's like they took an existing script and put a Star Trek skin on it because they're lazy. I just saw the latest episode where fake Data's daughter and the emo Romulan are sliding around a corridor with their shoes off and falling in love. It was the cringiest thing I have ever seen in a Trek show.

But of course Seven shows up which was the only thing that made me smile, but I know they're just going to ruin her character. I really hate seeing something I love being systematically destroyed, but I've been getting used to it.

So explain to me why is starfleet now racist?

Excuse me? I am NOT suggesting ST is Racist, Sexist and Homophobic....quite the opposite infact. I am flat out saying that those people who are hyper critical of the new ST shows are that way because THEY are Racist, Sexist and Homophobic.

GR’s vision was to predict a time when mankind had gone past the stupid “isms” that held mankind back, in his day. So he presented a crew that broke the US/USSR divide that was the cold war concern ofhis day. He also broached the issue of racism by having a multi racial bridge. In his time, GR could not address homophobia so there is no suggestion of any same sex relationship, although TOS has plenty of hetero-sexual sex and plenty of scenes where women arfe “in thier place”

Fast forward to DSC and these critics now claim that the male to male kiss is IN YOUR FACE; that two female minority actors leading a starship is somehow not right or not interesting or not believable. They INSIST on a Pike/Spock sequel so that things can look like they were in 1960! That’s where the racism. sexism and homoophobia exists in ST today. Among the VERY fans who pretend to complain about cannon etc but are really pissed that the WHITE MALE has lost his place on the bridge (they think)

Some things have always been KEY in ST. Chief among them is the idea that the OTHER is not necessarily the EVIL, HATEFUL enemy we like to see. Indeed while about the future ST has ALWAYS addressed issues of the current time. I see the “Synths” of the PIC series as representing the “other” of today. The mindless enemy who is willing to blow himself up to hurt his enemy....the Muslim Terrorist. The scene in Ep 2 where F8 kills his human co-workers and them himself is VERY close to how most people view the terrorist today. You notice also that SF immediately bans ALL artificial lifeforms and even bans research into them. IMO that is a direct reference to the Muslim Ban recently put iinto place, blame all for the acts of a few.

This is in the greatest traditions of ST, trying to make us see the error of ours ways through fiction. In contrast, you can watch The Orville where the ‘other’ is the constant butt of ridicule; is plagued with the worst of human vice: smoking, excess sexuality, laziness; is given the most ridiculous humanoid appearances (elephant noses etc).

Two completely different shows. Not surprisingly those people who are most critical of the NEW ST shows ( Knixon, (Nexus and a few others here) are the ones who are the Racists, Sexists and Homophobes. i am just trying to encourage them to wacth TO instead.

I DON’T believe ST is Racist At ALL!!!!!

Kurtzman’s NEW ST shows are trying to present a more REALISTIC future, kind of like DS9 tried to do. A future that isn’t the clinically sanatized world of TNG and in some respects VOY. SF personnel in DSC are NOT right off the bat, the exemplary examples of proffessional soldiers....they are HUMANS, with weaknesses and frailties, so are their non human shipmates. this will ALWAYS be the nature of humanity, no matter how far into the future you go.

In the NEW ST shows people swear and why not? Humans were cursing 3000 years ago, why wouldn’t they curse 300 years from now? On Earth, civilizations have lived with cannibalism and all sorts of cultural practices we would find abhorant today, why is it so hard to imagine that other worlds would do the same? What matters is not to simply act as if these practicies DO NOT or WOULD NOT exist in the future but to explore how we would REACT to them.

Some fans like the “stork with it’s head in the sand” approach to the future. If it were up to some people TOS would not have approached ANY boundaries and PARADOXICALLY it would NOT have been the success we all love today.

No, other planets never had/don't have cannibalism, etc.

Why?

Because whitey never got there.

Oh and the so-called "muslim ban" did not include Indonesia or several other majority-muslim countries. It was not a "muslim ban" at all. It was a "your government - if you even have one - doesn't have or can't be trusted to provide accurate information on whether or not you're a criminal/threat" ban.

Which, by the way, Obama did too.

@Thespear said:

So explain to me why is starfleet now racist?

Excuse me? I am NOT suggesting ST is Racist, Sexist and Homophobic....quite the opposite infact. I am flat out saying that those people who are hyper critical of the new ST shows are that way because THEY are Racist, Sexist and Homophobic.

This is a blatant smear. Just because something has gay people or women in it doesn't make it above criticism. I know Star Trek, I've been watching it for over 2 decades, I've seen every episode of every show at least twice and would routinely watch reruns. I'm also a writer so I know how story and characters are supposed to work, and these new ST shows do not respect either.

Calling critics racists/sexists/homophobes is just a shield used to deflect sound logical arguments as to why it's terrible, evidenced by how much actual ST fans have gravitated to The Orville which is far far closer to classic Trek and what Trek was always about. The Orville has great likeable female characters, diverse characters (both in race and species), and it has a main character who is gay and gay married with a transgender child and it's good because it's handled so well, so please, spare us all your virtue signaling BS, it doesn't work on us, we have 900+ virtue signaling armor, you can't beat it.

@Thespear said:

Fast forward to DSC and these critics now claim that the male to male kiss is IN YOUR FACE; that two female minority actors leading a starship is somehow not right or not interesting or not believable.

Sisko and Janeway were kicking ass and taking names back in the 90s, no one is offended by women or non-white people being in charge, we're offended by bad writing that hides behind the gender/race/sexuality of its characters as a defense against bad writing. By your logic the Cats movie was excellent because it had women and black people in it.

I can't with you anymore. Your thought process is so soaked in identity politics you can't even see that you're the bigot because to you a story or character is good or bad based only on the race/gender/sexuality of the characters in it and not based on how well it's written. Your kind grows smaller every day as you lose the culture war because regular people just want to see good stories and don't have time for your foolish woke posturing.

It's nice to see that I am not the only one who notices these things.But he will probably say that what you wrote is an excuse for why you really don't like it Ask Me Anything he will probably say your a racist,misogynist white male.

OMG I am so sick of get woke go broke mentality it is ruining every franchise out there all to please a very vocal minority.