@Thespear said:

Will Wheaton points out that PIC is different form TNG but it is still ST. Some of you need to hear what they said.

They have to talk like that, it's informally called "Hollywood talk", it's what you have to do to get a job with a generous paycheck. Stop making excuses, the show was bad. Period.

ST is about WANTING HUMANITY TO BE BETTER.

Oh yeah? That Narissa Narek thing, is that "better humanity", too? "Have you fucked them?" is what she asked Narek in this episode. What? Is she jealous??

I was thinking about the same thing not to mention the utter stupidity of having a fleet of over 200 ships ,the immediate question arises why aren't these Romulan ships being used to like you know transport these Romulan refugees to a habitable planet within the Romulan zone?And wait the stupidity gets even worse now Riker comands a Federation fleet that has to stop the Romulan fleet from destroying the synths who threaten to kill all biological life in the universe(sound fimiliar?)?

Yeah, he was baking Pizza ffs lol. From making pizzas to the head of the fleet as if it's nothing. And all the ships look the same...

Don't get me started with the tentacles lol. Soji, what, simply hung up on them?? LOL Poor tentacles lol

Edit: What did Oh call it? Wipe procedure #5?? How many planet wiping procedures do they have/need? LOL

Yeah season 2 is going to be about control and Picard who is already a side character in his his own show taking a step down so STD can connect with STP and Mikey Spock can become the bestest Star Trek character evah.

CBS is about churning out product for the stream.

Don't get me started about quality.

@Wolf359 said:

Yeah, he was baking Pizza ffs lol. From making pizzas to the head of the fleet as if it's nothing. And all the ships look the same...

Don't get me started with the tentacles lol. Soji, what, simply hung up on them?? LOL Poor tentacles lol

Edit: What did Oh call it? Wipe procedure #5?? How many planet wiping procedures do they have/need? LOL

A poster on a different site made a great observation about Sojis distress call. Why would the portal close when the phone call stopped? That’s like a 911 call where the call is cut off in the middle and the police have the address. “Ahh, Unit #14 cancel that. The caller only said, ‘He’s about to kill me with...’ before the call was cut off. She probably would have said, ‘kindness.” I’m glad these guys are handsomely paid for their brilliant work.

Seems like they forgotten about General Order 24

Why not a Number Six?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkQ8_Xr_zVY

Or order 666

" "Hollywood talk", it's what you have to do to get a job with a generous paycheck. Stop making excuses, the show was bad. Period."

Stop making circular arguments and make ones that can be reasoned with. 'Hollywood Talk is bad and the show is bad because it is Hollywood talk.' This is the essence of your argument. Allow me to explain what Picard season 1 is saying:

The question of artificial life is being explored. Essentially it is asking when is a human a human? What qualifies as life? Does wearing glasses? getting contact lenses? getting a bionic eye? hand? entire body make you less or more or equally human? Because Picard is now mostly artificial make him less human? If not, does that make synths like Data less human? The show's answer is that perhaps there will come a time when humans can see that what separates them from the machines made to function as them is less and less. THAT is human evolution and improvement. If you can't see that...then watch The Orville for God's sake!

True, technology isn't at the point where a 'soul transplant' like happened in the finale is scientifically possible...yet. However there is nothing logically impossible about such a happening. You will notice also that when they transplanted Picard's 'soul' into the golem, they did not add anything "extra" into his being: he will have his expected physiology and live his expected lifespan minus his terminal diagnosis. That is kind of like giving a heart patient a new heart. Does that operation then mean that person is any LESS human?

This is what I mean when I say TO writers are unable to explore the monumental human issues they broach in their episodes. ST has taken a side saying in effect, in time man MUST redefine the nature of life itself. TO prefers to resort back to puerile, schoolyard racist humor, sexism and 'otherism' and call it ST-light! And don't tell me that it is ST because Jonathan Frakes is directing some episodes; or some former ST actors are taking bit roles; or that Seth MacFarland is a huge fan.

None of that matters SQUAT! That is what a "Hollywood paycheck" is about. Also, it's not about whether the starring character(s) looks like me or I can imagine myself in the starring role(s). It is about what your PRODUCT, says about mankind. Finally, I laugh when I read the criticisms of so called inconsistencies in ST. Don't get me wrong, there ARE some. But to hear TO lovers complain about a show that does not take science or drama seriously and lacks quality...THAT is really RICH .It is also not worthy of further comment except to say that TO purports to be science fiction, drama and comedy but it is NOT science; NOT comedy and NOT drama!

I am c urrently at the end of season 6 of VOY in my annual binge of the series but still I prefer VOY a 1000 times over new Trek.

@Nexus71 said:

I am c urrently at the end of season 6 of VOY in my annual binge of the series but still I prefer VOY a 1000 times over new Trek.

Only 1000 times? :)

Sorry a million times

@Thespear said:

'Hollywood Talk is bad and the show is bad because it is Hollywood talk.' This is the essence of your argument.

I was talking about PIC, not Wil Wheaton's show. Wheaton and his guests would never criticize their own show. You don't shit where you eat.

If you want honest criticism, watch Nerdrodic, Robservations or Red Letter Media. It's way better than listening to people paid or associated with Hollywood studios.

The question of artificial life is being explored. Essentially it is asking when is a human a human? What qualifies as life? Does wearing glasses? getting contact lenses? getting a bionic eye? hand? entire body make you less or more or equally human? Because Picard is now mostly artificial make him less human? If not, does that make synths like Data less human? The show's answer is that perhaps there will come a time when humans can see that what separates them from the machines made to function as them is less and less. THAT is human evolution and improvement.

There's no need to sell Star Trek to Star Trek fans, so what's your point? Where are your arguments about PIC being a good continuation of Star Trek or a good sci-fi show?

Previously you also said :

THIS is why there will NEVER be a Pike/Spock show. That has been done already

Seriously? As if Hollywood would never make any remakes, reboots, unnecessary sequels etc. lol They'd jump on it the moment they realize there's money to make. (..which is also true for any company there is)

If you can't see that...then watch The Orville for God's sake!

I'm not convinced about The Orville either. The show feels like it's produced by high school students. Visuals are great but the dialogs are cheesy. They desperately need an actor a la Stewart as a lead. But The Orville is also the closest there is to TNG.

The Expanse is currently the best (ongoing) sci-fi show to watch.

True, technology isn't at the point where a 'soul transplant' like happened in the finale is scientifically possible...yet. However there is nothing logically impossible about such a happening. You will notice also that when they transplanted Picard's 'soul' into the golem, they did not add anything "extra" into his being: he will have his expected physiology and live his expected lifespan minus his terminal diagnosis. That is kind of like giving a heart patient a new heart. Does that operation then mean that person is any LESS human?

Wtf are you talking about? Who argued any of that?

This is what I mean when I say TO writers are unable to explore the monumental human issues they broach in their episodes. ST has taken a side saying in effect, in time man MUST redefine the nature of life itself. TO prefers to resort back to puerile, schoolyard racist humor, sexism and 'otherism' and call it ST-light! And don't tell me that it is ST because Jonathan Frakes is directing some episodes; or some former ST actors are taking bit roles; or that Seth MacFarland is a huge fan.

This is not about ST vs Orville, this is about PIC being a huge (and huge is an understatement) letdown to 'old' Star Trek fans, who've waited almost two decades for a continuation to TNG era Trek.

Soji could have turned around and destroyed any Romulan ship with lightning coming out her ass and you would still try to sell it as good Trek.

None of that matters SQUAT! That is what a "Hollywood paycheck" is about. Also, it's not about whether the starring character(s) looks like me or I can imagine myself in the starring role(s). It is about what your PRODUCT, says about mankind.

Again, don't try to sell ST to ST fans. We already know all that.

Finally, I laugh when I read the criticisms of so called inconsistencies in ST. Don't get me wrong, there ARE some. But to hear TO lovers complain about a show that does not take science or drama seriously and lacks quality...THAT is really RICH .It is also not worthy of further comment except to say that TO purports to be science fiction, drama and comedy but it is NOT science; NOT comedy and NOT drama!

My whole point is about what a letdown ST Picard is and that the writers must have a 12-year-old child's mentality. You're talking about the definition of Hollywood talk, about how bad Orville is, about ST vs TO, about what ST is about... What the heck are you talking about?