The second season was converted into the Specials season because the series was canceled by the original network (AMC+/HIDIVE) and the second season was left unaired in the origin country (US). So far, I think the second season has only been made available in Australia and New Zealand on Prime Video.

Additionally, your other reports have been hidden as one report for the season was more than enough.

But it has aired, as season 2, so surely it should still stay as S2?

It did air, but it aired in a different country on a different network after it was canceled by the original networks in its original country. The season is still unaired in the US.

Not that it will make one blind bit of difference but I'm adding my voice to this crazy decision. This is BONKERS !

Another ineptitude. At this point, I'm absolutely sure that some mods just getting off the fact they can mess up the data just in spite, and use any excuse to put it in the least usable for the users way. So what if it's died on the original network? Who cares. It finished the season run, and then continued its next season on another network, big deal. You have the network property attached to a season, not to the show. So change the network on season 2 and move on. Manifest and The Expanse both were canceled by the original network and later picked up by another. I don't see any regular episodes being moved to the specials there. The bible also specifies early cancellation (as the reason to move episodes to specials) as something that happens before the end of a season. Not after the end of a season.

As stated here by @superboy97

Here, we are talking of changes during a season, not between seasons. This is not the same thing.

So since it's not the same thing, the fact that the change happened between seasons should be enough to leave season 2 alone.

@raze464 said:

It did air, but it aired in a different country on a different network after it was canceled by the original networks in its original country. The season is still unaired in the US.

Yeah, this is a pretty nuts stance to take. There seriously needs to be a review of the mods because the decisions you make are just nuts.

@markcurrancavan said:

Not that it will make one blind bit of difference but I'm adding my voice to this crazy decision. This is BONKERS !

This is X-Men '97 all over again 😂

@shotfirer said:

Another ineptitude. At this point, I'm absolutely sure that some mods just getting off the fact they can mess up the data just in spite, and use any excuse to put it in the least usable for the users way.

Good thing I asked about this internally before doing anything. A more experienced moderator replied that based on our current rules regarding cancelations, it makes sense to list the unaired season as specials for this TV show since the original network already had the second season completed but canceled the show and removed it from everywhere in its origin country, a view which I agree with.

So what if it's died on the original network? Who cares. It finished the season run, and then continued its next season on another network, big deal.

Yeah, in another country. The season is still unaired in the show's origin country.

You have the network property attached to a season, not to the show. So change the network on season 2 and move on. Manifest and The Expanse both were canceled by the original network and later picked up by another. I don't see any regular episodes being moved to the specials there.

You conveniently leave out the part where both were picked up and aired new seasons in their origin country, something that was not the case with Pantheon. And they didn't just air seasons that NBC and Syfy, respectfully, refused to broadcast, they were newly-produced seasons.

As stated here by @superboy97

Here, we are talking of changes during a season, not between seasons. This is not the same thing.

So since it's not the same thing, the fact that the change happened between seasons should be enough to leave season 2 alone.

Which is why I asked internally, specifically because it's a special case as Pantheon S2 was already finished when the show was canceled but only aired outside its origin country.

If the season were also released by Prime Video in the US, it maybe could've stayed as a regular season. But it was released only in Australia and New Zealand.

The Nevers was also not picked up by any network. Warner Bros. sold the show, including the unaired Season 1 Part 2, to third-party FAST (free ad-supported television) streamers as part of a package deal involving multiple other TV shows to launch new live channels on their services. These unaired episodes for The Nevers could only be watched via a newly-launched WB-branded live channel first added to Tubi and later to Roku. Neither Tubi or Roku specifically picked up, or "saved," any show.

Yeah, I'm not surprised to get another dose of rationalization for using the rules for the sake of the rules. It was produced as season 2, it was sold as season 2 and it was released as season 2. But it can't be listed as season 2 "because rule". Of course, it adds a ton of quality to the data, to list season 2 as season 0. Makes a lot of sense, yeah. Much better than what stupid users are asking. Of course, what sane person would want to have season 2 listed as season 2, right? Having it as season 0 is much better for everyone. Much cleaner and logical. Like the simple fact that amc+ is not listed as a network in that season is not enough to understand, that the season didn't air there.

If some rule keeps screwing the data, because the realities changed, and the rule becomes outdated, this rule needs to be reviewed and updated, not used as a hammer to fit square pegs into round holes.

Why suddenly make the changes now? It's been listed as S2 for I don't know how long with no one complaining, and now you suddenly decide to change it?

This is madness. However, it's their database and if they want it like that then fine. At some point in the future this will air the US and at that point their rationale for this change will not stand up to scrutiny...

@shotfirer said:

Yeah, I'm not surprised to get another dose of rationalization for using the rules for the sake of the rules. It was produced as season 2, it was sold as season 2 and it was released as season 2. But it can't be listed as season 2 "because rule".

Yes, especially since there's no second season of the show in the US.

Of course, it adds a ton of quality to the data, to list season 2 as season 0. Makes a lot of sense, yeah.

It doesn't need to make sense; it just needs to follow the Contribution Bible. I'm fairly certain there are many TV show entries on the database with episodes without air dates simply because they haven't been broadcast in their origin country and/or original network.

Much better than what stupid users are asking.

Why do you think users are stupid?

Of course, what sane person would want to have season 2 listed as season 2, right? Having it as season 0 is much better for everyone. Much cleaner and logical.

Of course it's not better, cleaner, or logical; but that's the reality for this entry.

Like the simple fact that amc+ is not listed as a network in that season is not enough to understand, that the season didn't air there.

You are conveniently leaving out the fact that, unless I missed it, the season has not aired in the US. A show from the US that aired on X network doesn't suddenly become a show from AUS/NZ that airs on Y network just because Y network aired episodes (or seasons) the original network didn't.

If some rule keeps screwing the data, because the realities changed, and the rule becomes outdated, this rule needs to be reviewed and updated, not used as a hammer to fit square pegs into round holes.

Then ask for it to be changed/updated/replaced with something else and offer up an alternative that works for standard, run-of-the-mill cancellations and unusual cases like this where entire seasons are left unreleased in a TV show's origin country.

@MrOrange88 said:

Why suddenly make the changes now? It's been listed as S2 for I don't know how long with no one complaining, and now you suddenly decide to change it?

I had it on a list of entries to check out. I assumed the second season would eventually come to Prime Video in the US a few months its AUS/NZ release but it never did.

@raze464 said:

@shotfirer said:

Yeah, I'm not surprised to get another dose of rationalization for using the rules for the sake of the rules. It was produced as season 2, it was sold as season 2 and it was released as season 2. But it can't be listed as season 2 "because rule".

Yes, especially since there's no second season of the show in the US.

Of course there is. It was ordered, paid for and produced, just didn't air (as of yet).

It doesn't need to make sense; it just needs to follow the Contribution Bible. I'm fairly certain there are many TV show entries on the database with episodes without air dates simply because they haven't been broadcast in their origin country and/or original network.

Are you listening to yourself? Nothing could be more important than the data making sense. The rules are supposed to make the data better. If you have to sacrifice the quality of the data for the sake of following the rules, this means the rules are flawed, because the quality of the data should be the cornerstone of any database.

Also, if given a choice, I'm sure that most of us would prefer it to be listed as season 2 with blank airdates, rather than season 0 with Prime Video AU airdates.

Much better than what stupid users are asking.

Why do you think users are stupid?

Because we're always asking for stupid things, no? At least judging from your usual brittle tone.

You are conveniently leaving out the fact that, unless I missed it, the season has not aired in the US. A show from the US that aired on X network doesn't suddenly become a show from AUS/NZ that airs on Y network just because Y network aired episodes (or seasons) the original network didn't.

I'm not leaving out anything. This is exactly what happened to the show, I just don't understand why you are trying to conceal that fact. Prime Video bought it to release on some of their territories. It's not like they steal it to release it illegally or something. Anyway, the show has the United States as an Origin and Production country, and AMC Studios as one of the production companies. So in any case it remains the American show, which premiered its first season on the American network in the US, and the second season on the American streamer in AU/NZ.

If some rule keeps screwing the data, because the realities changed, and the rule becomes outdated, this rule needs to be reviewed and updated, not used as a hammer to fit square pegs into round holes.

Then ask for it to be changed/updated/replaced with something else and offer up an alternative that works for standard, run-of-the-mill cancellations and unusual cases like this where entire seasons are left unreleased in a TV show's origin country.

Ask who? We did, ever since the situation with The Nevers, apparently no one cares to listen or really talk about it, except for rubbing the bible in our faces.

@shotfirer said:

Of course there is. It was ordered, paid for and produced, just didn't air (as of yet).

Do you not understand? I'm not saying a second season doesn't exist, I'm saying no second season has aired in the US. Because the show was canceled.

Nothing could be more important than the data making sense. The rules are supposed to make the data better. If you have to sacrifice the quality of the data for the sake of following the rules, this means the rules are flawed, because the quality of the data should be the cornerstone of any database.

For TV shows, the database is supposed to match the original network's website, and a TV show's release in its original country, as best as possible within the rules of the Contribution Bible, whether it makes sense or not.

Also, if given a choice, I'm sure that most of us would prefer it to be listed as season 2 with blank airdates, rather than season 0 with Prime Video AU airdates.

The season would still be listed as specials in that case as the TV show was canceled by its original network in its origin country and the season hasn't been released in its origin country.

Because we're always asking for stupid things, no?

No one here has said asking for things is stupid except you.

I'm not leaving out anything. This is exactly what happened to the show,

You are making it look like Prime Video released the show worldwide when that is not the case. The season has only been released in AUS and NZ.

and the second season on the American streamer in AU/NZ.

Prime Video is considered a global, not American, streaming service on TMDB because it's available (almost) worldwide. This is why it has no origin country set.

@raze464 said:

For TV shows, the database is supposed to match the original network's website, and a TV show's release in its original country, as best as possible within the rules of the Contribution Bible, whether it makes sense or not.

Of course it's not better, cleaner, or logical; but that's the reality for this entry.

So TMDB admits that not calling the second produced season of this show "Season 2" — when it was produced, completed, and released (though not in all markets, presumably for tax write-off reasons) as a full-length season of new content, following the first season in in-universe continuity, and specifically not produced as a post-cancellation, diminutive series of 'special episodes' to wrap up unfinished storylines as a service to fans ... makes no sense ... and that the official position of TMDB is "oh, well" ... because 'rules'.

You guys make the Vogons seem positively laissez-faire.

I agree with everything said by the users above.

And you need to check yourself, Raze. I'll specifically note the pettiness of your reply to Jim Stark ( @shotfirer ): "Why do you think users are stupid?" ... as if you didn't understand his meaning . As a mod, you need to be defusing situations, not trolling users with legitimate complaints.

Have you consulted with Travis to suggest he make another of his famously sensible special exceptions to the rules (the non-contiguous James Bond franchise collection, etc.)?

Because these rules obviously aren't worth a damn here (nor in the other cases mentioned above and elsewhere); and either need to be sensibly excepted in this case as well, or fixed.

Edited numerous times in the 27 minutes since originally posted, for (somewhat better) clarity.