You're not selling yourself as someone who isn't a member of that first group with your closing sentence

This isn't the first time that NEX has revealed that he has a DARKER SIDE to him.

Gee I was only making a Trek related joke on the reaction of the producers of Disc when people criticized them and explained why they didn't like the show who also played the gender /race card in stead of addressing justified criticism which for the majority was content/character related not whether the main character was male/female,gay,bi,transgender,black,white yellow or pink can't anybody take a joke anymore . And FYI I actually watch the show and think season 2 is a vast improvement over season 1 so I am not entirely dismissive of it like most Trek fans at least I am willing to give it a chance like I did with all Trek shows.

And Invidia I did acknowledge the existence of hermaphrodites although they are rare but a genuine hermaphrodite (that is a person with both fully functioning sex organs) is even rarer at least with humans and this is the sort of nitpicking I was talking about which I would consider a luxury discussion which only seems to apply to Western wealthy countries,considering that the vast majority of the worlds female population doesn't even have basic women's rights I would think that those organisations should focus on trying to improve something about that in stead of the nitpicking.And let's not get started about gay or transgender rights for the vast majority of gays and transgenders in the world who in most countries have to hide from who they are in fear of being put into jail or even worse executed for what they are.My point is that I am not against what they are going for but my point is they should put their focus on things that would really matter and make a vast difference after we achieved all that we can discuss things into the tiniest details.If only a small percentage of worlds LGBT community can enjoy all the rights they need their victory isn't worth anything when vast majority of the worlds LGBT community can't even come out for what or who they really are in fear of persecution or death.And having an LGBT or gender fluid character on a TV show isn't going to make a damn much difference since that content is generally censored in those sort of countries or even not broadcast at all.

As for the simplest description on why DISC failed and how CBS tried to divert valid criticism from fans.DISC is like when a farmer is trying to sell you cheddar cheese for camembert cheese ,and when you criticize the farmer selling you cheddar cheese for camembert ,the farmer replies but it is fair trade cheddar cheese therefore you do not support fair trade.

I hope that makes any sense

Is that the reason BLADE RUNNER didn't do well at the box office??? Then How do you explain how it then went on to become one of the most POPULAR and respected Sci Films ever made???

Yes ET was the main reason why movies like The Thing and BR in particular failed at the box offices this is what many film historians and critics agree upon people preferred the the sugar coated family friendly ET over the alienating,paranoid,SF gore of The Thing and the dreary Nietzschian dystopia of Blade Runner .And also film historians /critics point out that part of the success of Star Wars was it simple but bright and hopeful story over the dreary SF movies typical of the era Logan's Run was released only a year prior to Star Wars .I was talking about SF movies not about the more mainstream categorie movies like Annie Hall or Rocky (Americans always have had a soft spot for the underdog character given the opportunity of making it big so that was hardly a surprise)).The reason why movies like The Thing and BR became such beloved classics was because of TV broadcasts and the advent of home video and served as a film masterclass for future directors who finally gave these movies the respect they deserved .Both The Thing and Blade Runner went from bomb to cult (through home video) and as a standard by the early to mid 90's .Also most film critics didn't get BR or dismissed it (I know this because this was thoroughly discussed in Dangerous Days a three and half hours long documentary about the making of Blade Runner in the 5 DVD Blade Runner boxset It has interviews with all key characters,critics,sf aficionados,and fans like director Frank Darabont(who actually mentions that the audience preferred the sugar coated ET over the dreary and dark movies like BR and The Thing)there are even rare recorded short telephone interviews with Phillip K Dick on that disc (who at first was dismissive of a movie being made of his work and having arguments with Scott but was completely blown away and was generally impressed when he saw the first completed film segments of BR and was really anxious to see the complete movie unfortunately he shortly died after that interview).And both The Thing and BR mention in their making of documentaries that ET was the main reason for why The thing and BR failed at the box office,there is even a mentioning of an article (in Variety) that predicted the massive effect ET would have on other movies of that summer where they predicted that movies like The Thing and BR would probably be the movies to suffer from the massive success of ET). The Box set also features the European and US versions of the original release (with the voice over) the Work print (with no voice over and the unicorn dream sequence )that toured the filmfestivals in the early 90's ,the early 90's directors cut (including the unicorn dream sequence but without the voice over and "The Shining left overs" ride into the sunset ending) and the '05 final cut of Blade Runner (similar as the directers cut but with some more tweaking and cleaning and even more suggestive that Deckard is a replicant.)

Another novel. Oh well.

Among other things, claiming to be a sci-fi fan who doesn't know the names Fred Saberhagen or Berserker, is all anyone really needs to know.

People who have red hair are more rare than people with both sets of functional reproductive organs? I hope you let all the medical journals know of your research in this area.

Sorry now you are putting words into my mouth Invidia I never denied anybody 's existence or denied them their rights and no I don't fear them for being different .I actually said I am all for equality of all races and genders I only said it is when the interests groups in the wealthy countries in the world start nitpicking about minor details or want to impose the way how the majority of us should act,live,think or treat like it was the "norm" or if these values are forced upon us through the mass media then we are on a slippery slope since that would be undemocratic and it would be doing the exact same thing that these minority groups are accusing the majority of.And whether it is 0.1 % or 2 % of the human species it is still is a small minority but let's not get bogged down in numbers and percentages. My point is even if the majority of the evolved western world would allow all this(which it is clearly not hence the popularity of these populist movements in most modern westen countries(people like Trump,Farrage ,Le Pen or Wilders) which I also think is not a good thing) it would be meaningless and futile since only a small minority of the people those interest groups represent can actually enjoy the benefits while the vast majority of the world's population of those groups is denied in even their existence or is put into jail or killed for their beliefs,gender or race what have you achieved then ? Very little if you ask me so in stead of these interests groups having endless discussions(like we are currently doing) about dots and commas at home they could better focus their talents and energies on fighting for the rights of those that have none abroad the impact of that would have an effect on the vast majority of the group they represent.After we have achieved that then the discussions on the tinniest details makes sense plus you will probably find a broader crowd responsive to your cause otherwise I fear this whole forced upon approach will cause a massive backlash entirely accomplishing the opposite of what you are trying to achieve.I am not against progress or against anything for that matter I am just being pragmatic and realistic about the issues.

What does NIETZSCHE have to do with DYSTOPIA or with BLADE RUNNER???

Quote from Scotts brother in Dangerous Days...

Thanks for the explanation regarding how ET is also an ISSUE, because this is also the FIRST TIME that one has ever heard these ISSUES being addressed before.

Well in the documentaries of both the movies(available on the SE dvd and blu-ray) and various tv programs this is generally acknowledged that ET had such a massive impact that it would(predicted by an article in Variety prior to the releases of that summer)and did effect the reception and number of viewers of both films (and many others Sf movies of that year with the odd exception of The Wrath Of Khan ) I think you'll find this article interesting.

https://variety.com/2017/film/news/blade-runner-1982-unloved-classic-1202476755/

And The Thing and Blade Runner are often mentioned as examples when home video gave otherwise failed movies a new lease of life.And this is not the first time this happened in movie history where what are now considered essential classics who upon their original release only had minor commercial success or bombed(movies like Citizen Kane,It's A Wonderful Life or Vertigo).

And that also makes it ODD that people would RELATE to it, when MOST PEOPLE can also better RELATE to what happens MOST of the TIME instead of what NEVER happens or has NEVER HAPPENED at all.

Why is that so odd ? If you work for the vast majority of the week in a job that is not always a joy or if you live is anything but bright and cheerful is it so odd that you want escape the dull and dreariness of your normal life by escaping into a fantasy world for a few hours that is the opposite of your everyday life? We humans are (only slightly smarter) animals with simple comforts only a meal away from chaos and anarchy.As for how evolved and civilized we as a species are I have no misconceptions and am somewhat cynical with the blood drenched pages of our history as support.And unlike what people might want or hope to believe from a worldwide perspective racism/discrimination seems to be the norm rather than the exception.Is that a good thing? NO!! ,should we do something about it? YES!! ,but my point is pick your battles more carefully and focus less on the symbolic and focus more on achieving the best deal for the most people that you want to represent.The world is unfortunately still a big bad and ugly place and not a progressive college campus.

Anyhow, the MAIN POINT is people who are BOTH SEXES might be RARE, but they do still also EXIST, and aren't just a case of SEMANTICS anymore than people who have RED HAIR (who are even more RARE) are a case of SEMANTICS and should have their existence IGNORED.

Where did I write that I deny that they exist or their existence should be Ignored ? Being a minority doesn't absolve you from existing or having basic human rights but what you can't expect as a minority is that you can impose your standards,or how one should act or think on the majority as the "norm"or "normal" than you can't and don't be surprise when the majority is not going along with that philosophy and reacts contrary to what you are trying to achieve hence Trump coming to power ,Brexit, The French (and now in other countries)yellow vests protests etc etc.

I was talking about special interests groups (not all of them) in general who are with the aid of mass media are forcing their minority agendas upon us through tv and movies or this used the divert valid criticism on a bad product(You can't have failed noticing the whole fuss around Ghostbusters 2016 ,The Last Jedi and Discovery I hope).I was not talking about gender in specific .But I was pretty much describing the landscape here in Europe so many things you describe might apply to the US but not here in Europe for example through surgery being forced into a specific gender is not what is happening over here in the Netherlands but I can imagine that for the former eastern European countries might have different views ,so I don't know the specifics about that.But for me it doesn't matter who or what you are all should have equal chances and opportunities to achieve happiness on how to achieve it for everybody on this world is another matter Invidia but at least not in a forced manner which is currently happening and certainly not in such a poor manner.

And WHAT did SCOTT's brother say???

That people were not waiting for this dark and grim Nitzschian dystopia that was portrayed in Blade Runner.

THANKS for the LINK. Haven't read it yet, but wasn't there also a BLACK OUT on ET for several years where the CREATOR refused to let others have copies of it (sort of like the same way LYNCH also refused to let others view ERASERHEAD for a long time)??? So how could ACCESS to it be unavailable and it still remain so popular under those kind of conditions???

Well ET wasn't released on video until 1985 but that was just done to build up anticipation also back then movies could run in the cinema for a year or more plus it took longer for films to be distributed into the foreign markets so if your movie was very successful it would be more profitable in the cinemas if they could extend that as much as possible. Blade Runner on the other hand didn't break even during it's theatrical run so to at least gain some profit they released it fairly quick on home video which in the end worked to it's advantage since it gave viewers the opportunity to pause the film and rewind to certain segments During it's release it was probably too much ahead of it's time but over the years it became more mainstream and is when other directors started copying it's style and themes.For example the original Terminator is a product much in the vein of BR (heck it gave BR it's classification as Tech Noir) but apart from Terminator being inspired by BR it also paved the way for the acceptance of BR through the home video audience.

Hearst deliberately KILLED CITIZEN KANE because the story was ABOUT HIM. Have you also seen the FILM called RKO 281 that's about HEARST and his relationship with ORSON???

Yes I know that movie RKO 281 and the whole Hearst backstory of CK I have a copy of it on VHS and that it was produced by Ridley Scott !

When and WHERE did you ever see this MINORITY GROUP of people try to FORCE anything upon another GROUP Nex???

Last year our national railway company changed their announcements not beginning their messages with "ladies and gentlemen" but with the anonymous and rather impersonal "passengers"(underlining that you are now even more of a number rather than a customer)because some transgender /gender fluid interest group had taken offence.

@Nexus71 said:

I was talking about special interests groups (not all of them) who are with the aid of mass media are forcing their minority agendas upon us through tv and movies or this used the divert valid criticism on a bad product(You can't have failed noticing the whole fuss around Ghostbusters 2016 ,The Last Jedi and Discovery I hope).I was not talking about gender in specific .But I was pretty much describing the landscape here in Europe so many thing like through surgery being forced into a specific gender is not the what is happening over here in the Netherlands but I can imagine that for the former eastern European countries this might apply as well ,so I don't know the specifics about that.But for me it doesn't matter who or what you are all should have equal chances and opportunities to achieve happiness on how to achieve it for everybody on this world is another matter Invidia but at least not in a forced manner which is currently happening ad certainly in such a poor manner.

When and WHERE did you ever see this MINORITY GROUP of people try to FORCE anything upon another GROUP Nex???

Last year our national railway company changed their announcements not beginning their messages with "ladies and gentlemen" but with the anonymous and rather impersonal "passengers"(underlining that you are now even more of a number rather than a customer)

Still OT, but it seems that Europe and the rest of the world is rapidly changing into a gender-neutral society.

An example in France:

Schools in France to replace 'mother and father' with 'parent 1 and 2' under controversial same sex amendment

France to replace 'mother' and 'father' with Parent 1 and Parent 2 on school forms to avoid excluding same-sex parents

Note: I expect that in the future the written and spoken languages will also be changed by excluding and replacing any words identifying gender (e.g. he/she, man/woman, boy/girl, and so on).

So, "Star Trek: Discovery" is behind on the present developments and has some catching up to do.

Still OT, but it seems that Europe and the rest of the world is rapidly changing into a gender-neutral society.

Maybe in Europe (and whether they are so open minded on these subjects in countries such as Poland or the Czech republic I doubt )but I don't think gays or transgenders in countries like China,India,Russia,Saudi Arabia or a wide variety of countries in the African continent would have noticed much improvement of their situation.And recently Brasil mass voting a Latin Trump into power doesn't seem like much improvement either.

Plus all sorts of problems arise when gender politics gets combined with racial/ethnic politics and all sort of paradoxes arise For example because of all inclusiveness and the right of cultural identity of ethnic minorities in our current PC climate in the west religious freedom is a must and therefore should be tolerated/respected .But what what if that same religion thinks it is okay that a woman is subservient to man or thinks it is okay to bash homosexuals, you respecting somebody's cultural identity caused the oppression of certain gender groups on the other end see the problem I am trying to illustrate with this all inclusive gender neutral racial equality agenda? And this is just the tip of the iceberg of problems when one has to tackle these issues.These problems might seem simple to overcome within the ideal surroundings of a college campus but in the real world one comes across all kinds of problems where by allowing certain groups certain liberties one also inhibits the liberties of other groups.And I stress I have nothing against their goals and I fully agree with most of the issues but for that to happen and for it really to make a difference these issues should be addressed on a global scale not by nitpicking into the tiniest details on these issues on a national scale.

Nex: It's also possible to see the Orville situation in a different light. In the mid-70s, Bob Hope joked “I’ve just flown in from California, where they’ve made homosexuality legal. I thought I’d get out before they make it compulsory.” The Moclans seem to have more or less taken the joke seriously. And I wonder if the "activists" realize how that reflects on them? The "gender-fluid" activists, for example, don't just claim that THEY are "gender-fluid," they claim that EVERYONE is, whether they realize it or not. In their eyes, for society to be "fair," that attitude has to be enforced by law. Which could easily "slippery slope" into a Moclan-type situation. (Except for the part where sex is actually a form of reproduction, not just "identity." But that doesn't seem to matter for some people in fiction.)

Terms don't become offensive until someone decides they are, and then pushes to make an issue of it.

And just one example: Why is the NAACP still called NAACP, considering that "colored people" became "offensive" DECADES ago?

As with "retarded" it's all just invention of people with agendas.

The terms used for this condition are subject to a process called the euphemism treadmill. This means that whatever term is chosen for this condition, it eventually becomes perceived as an insult. The terms mental retardation and mentally retarded were invented in the middle of the 20th century to replace the previous set of terms, which were deemed to have become offensive. By the end of the 20th century, these terms themselves have come to be widely seen as disparaging and politically incorrect and in need of replacement.[2] The term intellectual disability or intellectually challenged is now preferred by most advocates in most English-speaking countries. The AAIDD have defined intellectual disability to mean the same thing as mental retardation.[3] Currently, the term mental retardation is used by the World Health Organization in the ICD-10 codes, which has a section titled "Mental Retardation" (codes F70?¢?"F79). In the future, the ICD-11 is expected to replace the term mental retardation with intellectual disability, and the DSM-5 is expected to replace it with intellectual developmental disorder.[4][5] Because of its specificity and lack of confusion with other conditions, mental retardation is still sometimes used professional medical settings around the world, such as formal scientific research and health insurance paperwork.[6]

Which just goes to show, it's all invented by people with agendas.

You don't see the connection/relation? Wow.

@Knixon said:

Another novel. Oh well.

Among other things, claiming to be a sci-fi fan who doesn't know the names Fred Saberhagen or Berserker, is all anyone really needs to know.

People who have red hair are more rare than people with both sets of functional reproductive organs? I hope you let all the medical journals know of your research in this area.

should just put them on ignore its ridiculous the verbal diarrhea lol

Yes, I know. But it's entertaining sometimes.

Ok. Sorry to disappoint you, but one HAS FAILED to notice the FUSS around GB 2016, The LAST JEDI, and DISCOVERY (because whatever channels I've been watching also NEVER carried any AD'S for them). By DISCOVERY do you mean THIS new ST SHOW??? Since it's not even AVAILABLE for viewing on our CBS channel here, that would also explain the reason why one hasn't seen any AD's for it (but one also watches MSNBC and hardly ever views CBS).

Well to put it simply what happened with all three of them is the story of the farmer selling you cheddar cheese for camembert applies(see earlier post).When fans of these franchises complained about the poor quality of these products the studio's played the race/gender card and reducing all those that complained about them where withe racist male misogynists who lived in their mommy's basement(even though the vast majority of criticism was not race or gender related at all).And yes Discovery is the new Trek show and the producers of that show also reacted to criticism in a similar fashion.

Sounds like things must be quite different over there than they are over here??? And perhaps that may also be due to the RELIGIOUS FANATICS that we have over here (who also RULED HOLLYWOOD and wouldn't allow it to portray certain situations in FILMS or on TV for many years over here)??? An example of this would be how NO COUPLE on TV (even LUCY and her husband DESI that she was MARRIED to at the time) could be seen together in a BED together which caused them to use SEPARATE BEDS each time they were show inside of a BEDROOM.

So even IF kids grow up seeing a DOUBLE BED inside of the room of their parents where they sleep together at night, one would only see a set of SEPARATE TWIN BEDS in the rooms of parents on TV.

In other words, this kind of NONSENSE has probably also been going on for a lot longer over here than over there???

Seems like indeed that we never made a big deal about the things you mention over here in the Netherlands but with countries in Europe where there still is a strong roman catholic presence (most of the former Warsaw pact countries) sentiments might be similar to that of the US .

Is this a REFERENCE to the REPLICANTS being some kind of OVER MEN??? Because the OVER MAN would also be something that MAN HIMSELF MORPHS into through the process of EVOLUTION rather than it being some kind of a being that's been MANUFACTERED by MAN.

Well I guess that has something to do with it plus the replicants are not machines in your traditional sense of the word but a product of selective breeding and genetic enhancements to create this "superhuman" which at the time would have reminded people of the experiments that the nazis were doing in WW II and connected them with their perverted interpretation of Nietzsches work.I believe that similar theme is explored in Hitchcock's Rope.

I myself think the movie is more about that if in a society where humans are cold,emotionless and lacking empathy what is the difference between us humans and our creations(the replicants)? Apart from longevity there is very little that sets us apart from them plus that line of thought also leads us to interesting discussions whether Deckard himself is a replicant and how we can distinct human from replicant apart from the Voight-Kampf test which to me always reminded me of Alan Turing's test for artificial intelligence(Turing the father of the computer himself was a victim of gender discrimination being a homosexual he was arrested and persecuted for this in 1950's Britain and was given the choice of prison or accept chemical castration and be released from prison Turing chose the latter but he eventually he committed suicide)

As for the Orville haven't seen it yet it's not available over here but that is much of what I heard or read about the show.I'll have to do with Netflix so at least I can watch Discovery over there and now with season 2 they have started to take into account the various criticism of season 1 and the show has vastly improved over the past 5 episodes and the show is actually beginning to feel more like a Star Trek show.

@Nexus71 said:

As for the Orville haven't seen it yet it's not available over here but that is much of what I heard or read about the show.I'll have to do with Netflix so at least I can watch Discovery over there and now with season 2 they have started to take into account the various criticism of season 1 and the show has vastly improved over the past 5 episodes and the show is actually beginning to feel more like a Star Trek show.

Episode 1:

https://www.adrive.com/public/zc278e/The.Orville.S01E01.WEBRip.x264-RARBG.mp4

Episode 2:

https://www.adrive.com/public/dYTcDa/The.Orville.S01E02.WEB-DL.x264-RARBG.mp4

Episode 3:

https://www.adrive.com/public/ksdEec/The.Orville.S01E03.WEB-DL.x264-RARBG.mp4

Episode 4:

https://www.adrive.com/public/Pc8cmD/The.Orville.S01E04.WEB-DL.x264-RARBG.mp4

Please advise when you're ready for more. And you should at least copy all of these links even if you don't download them immediately, in case the powers that be, delete this post.

and/or leave/post an email that you don't mind other people seeing (I have several) and I'll email them to you.

Thanx for the links Knix I will try and look if they work otherwise I have to see whether or not some tv station will pick up the show so I can evaluate the series myself.

And yes Forbidden Planet is in my movie collection and I love that whole notion of the creature from the Id that was in fact a projection of their violent subconscious that eventually killed the alien race .

Aww Bruno Ganz died (the actor who played Hitler in Downfall)

His Hitler actually became part of this youtube meme thingy where the same scene when Hitler is having one of his famous outbursts and realizes the situation is hopeless is used to vent criticism on popular movies,series or videogames (they change the subtitles depending on the subject but it isn't an actual translation of what Hitler is actually saying.)It's called Hitler reacts to....(here is a clip Where Hitler reacts to the ending of the BSG reboot)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uuoVwA7AsFI

and I am not a supporter of Hitler but I kind of actually agree with the opinion that was vented in the subtitles that the ending was pretty lame and that the show had been drawn out for too long and made such a mess of story lines because of numerous turns and plot twists that it went for a Deus Ex Machina to explain all the loose ends? But heck should we have seen this coming from the same writer of DS9 where the gods of the wormhole intervene and save the Federation from Annihilation by the Dominion.

this was his comment and predictions on Discovery after seeing the teaser trailer (which turned out to be quite prophetic.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u-2wYg-BDt0

and part 2 after seeing the first episodes (quite on the mark as well, Warning the language can get a bit offensive so be warned if very dark humor is not your thing Warning)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCGE-0mZueo