@superboy97 said:

I read again the early cancellation rule, and it appears that, due to the simple fact that they air on a different network, they should be listed in the Specials season. It is not even limited to a digital broadcast.

the "rule"! you know it's not a law right? you understand that you are a web site and not a country ? you can change something or make an exception that is based on PURE logic very simple without having to get a parliament approval or a vote from congress ?

While Tubi is a valid network since they have original TV shows and movies, for TMDB's purposes, is Tubi just the on demand library or are the "live" channels offered by them also considered to be part of the Tubi "network" so to speak? I would think it's only the former.

That's where part the problem on how to list the "unaired" episodes" for this show comes from.

Unlike the Star Wars: The Clone Wars example that was mentioned, this show didn't actually "move" to Tubi after HBO's cancellation like is being assumed since the show is not actually available on Tubi's website. Roku still doesn't have the show but Tubi aired the episodes only on the WB Watchlist channel, without episode numbers, and with no way to watch them on demand. A TV show airing on one of Tubi's (or Roku's) "live" channels is a very different thing than a TV show moving to Tubi (or Roku).

It aired on a network that Tubi offers. Whether you call that network tubi itself, or the WB TV Watchlist channel as hosted on tubi (much like channels exclusive to cable packages, to peacock, etc), it is an actual live network, and that's where the episodes aired, not an on demand library. And no, they did not air without episode numbers. If you don't want to say it moved to Tubi, then you can say it moved to Tubi's WB TV channel. Because that's exactly what it did. Any further broadcasts on this network or others should be considered reruns, because the original air dates of these episodes being on February 14th and 15th.

And I think the deeper issue here is that there is no positive reason for the early cancellation rule in regards to any proper episode of any tv series that is officially listed as a numbered episode as part of a series, whether that episode is released on the company's website for free, whether another company buys streaming rights, whether it's put up for paid on demand, or whether it's released only on the Blu-ray/DVD release. Regardless of the transmission format, they are intended to be viewed as part of the season, and this website should reflect that. The rule needs to either be done away with, or modified to specifically only refer to non-numbered releases.

A good example of that would be once again a Clone Wars example of the unfinished episodes, where they had audio, storyboards, some animation, etc. They were released online, were not given any numbering as part of the series, and are not part of any particular season. THOSE would be good examples of what should be considered an extra (and are correctly labeled as such here). Episodes that are numbered, and are part of the season, but simply aired on a different network or platform simply do not make any sense to be categorized as extras. It's incorrect information, and for people using TMDB as a source of information on how to watch a TV series, they're not going to be getting the correct information for how to follow that series. It is important that a database like this use rules that make sense to provide the correct information to people, so these rules need to be updated, because right now, this rule is leading to inaccurate information.

The rationalizations being offered and the digging in of heels about some reified "rules" in this thread are egregiously and wildly inappropriate, and, quite frankly, disgraceful. Philosophically, this is just about the same thing as defending some kind of horrifically immoral act, just because it is permitted by law. I am in favor of strong rules and consistent loyalty to them. But they have to be rational rules that serve the purpose of the rules. The rules are not an end in themselves; they exist to support and enhance some further end. In this case (and it seems in at least a handful of others), the rules frustrate their intended purpose, and I'm struggling to come up with a legitimate, beneficial reason for the rules as written. We can be consistent about the application of the rules and avoid one-offs by having more carefully crafted rules that reflect reality.

Another deeper issue here is the utter intransigence I'm observing. I would have been much more accepting of a response that was along the lines of "You're totally right that this is an example of where the rules lead to a really unintuitive result that ends up conflicting sharply with other data sources. For now, we need to be consistent about applying the rules as written, because one-offs create a lot of administrative problems, but this is really good feedback, and we'll consider how we might be able to change the rules to be more useful in the future. Thank you so much for surfacing this!". Instead, we got some condescending "But them's the rules.", accompanied by legalistic intellectual gymnastics, and that really doesn't sit well with me. As a product manager in tech myself, I know that I can't always give my customers what they're asking for (especially not right away), but when they're right, I'm absolutely willing to validate and acknowledge the correctness of their feedback.

It's no use arguing with the MODS about this. They stick to the rules even if those rules are archaic and based on broadcast television. We all know that everything now is in streaming so the rules should be UPDATED to reflect the current trend of broadcast. The order of episodes should not be in the original broadcast order. We all know that US networks sometimes air episodes out of order or do not air them at all. It should be in DVD/VOD order or the creator's intended order followed by most international markets.

Everytime their stubbornness screws us with home servers over because tmdb is how we get our tv show meta data. It's the same guy that insisted that the "Attack on Titan" final season finale was a "SpEciAl". Smh

Kodi is unable to discover the remaining episodes 7..12 if they are categorized as "specials". As these episodes continue the story and are produced by the original team, they should be added to season 1. Can the MODs please help the community out with this issue?

@krabat said:

Kodi is unable to discover the remaining episodes 7..12 if they are categorized as "specials".

Kodi is perfectly able to discover them if you number them correctly, aka S00E01 to S00E06.

Another solution is to use the episode group and number all the episodes S01E01 to S01E12.

Thank you for pointing me in the right direction. I wasn't aware of the episode groups. For anyone having the same issue in kodi, the episode group usage with the TMDB scraper is explained in the kodi wiki.